Spooks Forum
Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - Printable Version

+- Spooks Forum (http://www.spooksforum.co.uk)
+-- Forum: MI5 Operations (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: Series 9 (/forum-29.html)
+--- Thread: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion (/thread-1277.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - FionaC - 26-10-2010 06:49 PM

I'm glad others are commenting on Malcolm calling Lucas 'John'. Was it a case of old habits die hard or was there something more? I'm inclined to believe Malcolm did it on purpose. Whatever the reason I thought it was a heart stopping moment! Can't wait for the next episode.

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - Naivety - 26-10-2010 06:57 PM

One thing is for sure: the Kudos writer's put it in there because they knew it would keep the forums busy!

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - femaleBertieWooster - 26-10-2010 07:09 PM

(26-10-2010 05:52 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 05:47 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Just thinking about what Lucas said to Malcolm to get the Albany file from him, something about someone trying to set Harry up with photos from (I think) somewhere in China, with the year being 1995, 15 years ago. That must mean that Harry was also present for whatever went down with Vaughn, John and Maya.

I thought Lucas said 1978, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure if it was about what happened in Africa with John/Lucas thing....I'm just confused now....Dodgy

I tried to post this last night (USA last night=approx 8AM in England) and kept getting forbidden messages. Did we get hacked?

-------------------------
I just checked, Lucas said Colon? 1979, investigating the Red Army (made me think China, I'm a dummy) and East Germany.

I guess was was hearing what I wanted to help solve the mystery.

I did notice this time that Malcolm gave Lucas a glare as he walked in the door. He knew everything.
Spoiler: show
I still think Lucas is being played by everyone. Vaughn said if Lucas wanted answers, to do what he asked. This says to me that he doesn't have answers so doesn't really know what he's doing.
-----------------------------

Molecatcher explained it better in this post--
(26-10-2010 06:13 PM)molecatcher Wrote:  I thought when Lucas told Malcolm Harry was being set up over the Cologne incident in 1979 he made the mistake of mentioning the Albany file as if the two were connected which Malcolm knew they weren't and he therefore sussed out that Lucas was lying to him. I also think Malcolm called him John deliberately to see what his reaction would be. Malcolm must know what's in the Albany file in order to have a decoy buried in his garden and probably also knows, along with Harry, about Lucas' past and they accept it because in order to be a Spook you have to have a dark side otherwise you wouldn't be able to operate. Although at first shocked that he appeared to let Danielle die rather than have her tell anyone about the detour to Malcolm's and the Albany file I did think she died within a few seconds of him removing his finger from the arterial bleed so didn't actually kill her and seemed genuinely saddened rather than evil at that point.

And about Danielle, she got shot while in the trunk, they then ran somewhere and she finally collapsed. It's amazing she lasted that long. While he did hesitate a second or two when she said she would never mention Albany, he didn't let her die. There is no way that he could hang up on an emergency call and then call back when someone was dead. No way he could 'splain it away.

The expression on his face was not evil, it was more his thinking how he messed it all up and what it led to. Add to that, if he had gone back to the grid on schedule, he would have walked in with her before he had a clue they were being spied on and there was no way anyone could have warned him.

I have an idea which I hope and pray is not where this is going.
Spoiler: show
Remember the episode with Tom Quinn where they shut down the grid and faked all kinds of catastrophe to test his nerves under pressure. This could be something like that. It would be the worst letdown in television history. Please god no.


RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - Caitlinhg - 26-10-2010 07:26 PM

Been taking in all the comments/speculation on S9E6 here... find much of it plausible and intriguing. I have a couple of thoughts that keep nagging me, however:

1. Why "Albany" as the code word for the Op file Lucas is chasing? Is there any significance, like there was with "Sugarhorse" and others? I haven't seen any thoughts about this, here, and would be interested to see if anyone else has wondered about the name? Usually there is some link from the cover name to the operation. Any idea?

2. Harry, to me, seems to be much steelier since Ros' death and Ruth's rejection. Could he have brought in a triple agent, Vaughn, to manipulate Lucas' and flush out Chinese operatives relating to "Albany" at the same time, (for whatever reason) and to test his last standing Head Agent? Could that be why he's angry at Ruth's "doggedness" when tracking Lucas' Grid activity? Not that it shows Lucas' duplicity and tracks alone... but also... if followed far enough, could show a trail leading her to him as the puppet master of the entire scenario re: Albany? Also, remember, she's willing to speak to his superiors, if asked her opinion, which doesn't set well with Sir Harry, at all. Any thoughts?

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - Nitrus - 26-10-2010 07:29 PM

(26-10-2010 07:26 PM)Caitlinhg Wrote:  1. Why "Albany" as the code word for the Op file Lucas is chasing? Is there any significance, like there was with "Sugarhorse" and others? I haven't seen any thoughts about this, here, and would be interested to see if anyone else has wondered about the name? Usually there is some link from the cover name to the operation. Any idea?

I provided some thought about this here: http://www.spooksforum.co.uk/thread-1248-post-33309.html#pid33309

See what you think.

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - Gazelle - 26-10-2010 08:00 PM

Well, now just 2 episodes left and I'm starting to get worried... Surely the scriptwriters wouldn't have Ruth on the wrong side of all this - no, I remain hopeful that she's innocent and has just got suspicious about Lucas for good reason (afterall, she did spot him leaving the secure server area a few episodes back). There's surely no way she'd betray MI5 or Harry? Looks like she gets caught up in the action next week but am I the only one hoping Harry orchestrates the mission to free her and that they make up by the end of episode 7? (not used to the frosty relations between them, and not liking it either!)

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - neuro - 26-10-2010 08:23 PM

(26-10-2010 07:09 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 05:52 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 05:47 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Just thinking about what Lucas said to Malcolm to get the Albany file from him, something about someone trying to set Harry up with photos from (I think) somewhere in China, with the year being 1995, 15 years ago. That must mean that Harry was also present for whatever went down with Vaughn, John and Maya.

I thought Lucas said 1978, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure if it was about what happened in Africa with John/Lucas thing....I'm just confused now....Dodgy

I tried to post this last night (USA last night=approx 8AM in England) and kept getting forbidden messages. Did we get hacked?

-------------------------
I just checked, Lucas said Colon? 1979, investigating the Red Army (made me think China, I'm a dummy) and East Germany.

probably the Red Army Faction aka the Baader-Meinhof Group as they where active in the 70's

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - femaleBertieWooster - 26-10-2010 08:25 PM

(26-10-2010 07:29 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 07:26 PM)Caitlinhg Wrote:  1. Why "Albany" as the code word for the Op file Lucas is chasing? Is there any significance, like there was with "Sugarhorse" and others? I haven't seen any thoughts about this, here, and would be interested to see if anyone else has wondered about the name? Usually there is some link from the cover name to the operation. Any idea?

I provided some thought about this here: http://www.spooksforum.co.uk/thread-1248-post-33309.html#pid33309

See what you think.

Do you have any ideas about what may have happened in North Africa in 1995? I've been googling my fingers sore to get some history from that time.
Spoiler: show
I've found several references to water problems being solved. Also, the Middle East was involved. Just read on a blog that episode one involved Lucas getting on that ship from North Africa, which I did not pick up on. Did England have some role in changing government in Africa, together with the CIA of course?


Edit to add:
(26-10-2010 08:23 PM)neuro Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 07:09 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 05:52 AM)BravoNine Wrote:  
(26-10-2010 05:47 AM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  Just thinking about what Lucas said to Malcolm to get the Albany file from him, something about someone trying to set Harry up with photos from (I think) somewhere in China, with the year being 1995, 15 years ago. That must mean that Harry was also present for whatever went down with Vaughn, John and Maya.

I thought Lucas said 1978, I could be wrong, but I'm not sure if it was about what happened in Africa with John/Lucas thing....I'm just confused now....Dodgy

I tried to post this last night (USA last night=approx 8AM in England) and kept getting forbidden messages. Did we get hacked?

-------------------------
I just checked, Lucas said Colon? 1979, investigating the Red Army (made me think China, I'm a dummy) and East Germany.

probably the Red Army Faction aka the Baader-Meinhof Group as they where active in the 70's

Thank you. Any idea what was happening in Africa in 1995 that England would want to keep secret? I'm referring to meddling of course.

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - molecatcher - 26-10-2010 09:02 PM

(26-10-2010 07:09 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  And about Danielle, she got shot while in the trunk, they then ran somewhere and she finally collapsed. It's amazing she lasted that long. While he did hesitate a second or two when she said she would never mention Albany, he didn't let her die. There is no way that he could hang up on an emergency call and then call back when someone was dead. No way he could 'splain it away.

The expression on his face was not evil, it was more his thinking how he messed it all up and what it led to.

She certainly appeared to be on her way out when Lucas first helped her out of the trunk of the car and you're right, that running would have pumped the blood around her body pretty fast.

I don't see Ruth as a traitor but think the only thing she's doing is delve into what is a big question mark in her head ~ what's Lucas up to? Like a dog that's got ahold of a bone, she's not going to let go. She's been on her own mission this season of work, work, work and it could get her into serious trouble.

RE: Series 9 Episode 6 discussion - lwhite53 - 26-10-2010 09:21 PM

Hot damn -- this will certainly get added to my 10 favorite eps list!! Wonderful tension throughout, great "spy stuff" happening (R passing H the note, Tariq throwing the computer, Malcolm giving Lucas the wrong file -- with a smile and handshake, voice synthesis, Malcolm calling Lucas "John," etc, etc), and terrific music underscoring.

As people have already said, loved the lockdown scenario and the whole group (sans Lucas) having to work together to get out and foil the newest threat. My fav line of the ep: Dimitri's "I've just had a really terrible idea." I laughed out loud at the look on his face.

Lucas is getting more and more out of control. The morphing between the "Lucas" and "John" personnas is happening almost without his being aware of it (maybe he has multiple personality disorder) and Maya seems to be what triggers the reaction. I think the most telling episode is what ultimately happens to Danielle -- he resists the fake Harry's order to kill her and does his best to protect her until he discovers that she knows about the Albany file, and then he allows her to die. I do believe he cancelled the emergency call and relaxed the pressure on her wound so that she would bleed out -- the reason he did so was to protect himself and, ultimately, Maya. Whether or not she would have died anyway is immaterial -- he (John) compromised another person for the second time. Lucas is the one who's feeling the remorse.

I'm finding the testiness between Harry and Ruth over Lucas interesting - Harry obviously wants to trust Lucas and he appears to know more than he's letting on but he doesn't want to let Ruth into the knowledge loop. Don't know yet whether that's to protect Ruth, to protect Lucas, or if he suspects Ruth of something. The way the coming clips are set up, it appears that Harry is giving Lucas the spiel about loyalty and betrayal but . . . we don't necessarily know that that's the case.

And LOVED seeing Malcolm again!!