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+--- Thread: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion (/thread-1975.html)
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - pennyfeather - 26-10-2011 12:33 AM
I'm not liking some of the comments im reading about people boycotting the DVD. God knows ive felt tthe despair you've all described but surely after 10 years of hard work and energy by cast and crew, for a show we've watched and loved - if we're to stop that support entirely just because of a tragic ending....idk just seems a pretty poor way to repay an incredible group of creators who have brought such magic to our tv screens for tthe past 10 years....
I mean has anyone here seen the youtube clip where NW and PF talk about the DVD? They are just loving it and jokinga round with looks and glances: they even end with a kiss! Its adorable! These incredible actors who adore each other is just another testament to what can come of working on a show with fantastic people. I dont know about you but watching extras and commentaries will probably help me get over it all.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - kmac82 - 26-10-2011 03:28 AM
So I've spent the last 2 days mulling over everything, and I've resisted posting until I've gained some sort of perspective. There's so much to say and I have it all swirling around in my head, so forgive me if this is rambling or disconnected. And, heck, maybe this will be therapeutic for me, but here are my thoughts...for what they're worth.
First off, I thought the ending was magnificent. Tragic British drama at its finest. The last 10 minutes have to be one of the saddest, most heartbreaking, and most moving series of scenes I've ever beheld. It was like my heart had been quite literally ripped from my chest. I truly felt Harry's anguish and helplessness as he wept and cradled Ruth's face with his bloody hands. I felt myself (and still somewhat DO) almost become physically sick with grief, as he stood in the kitchen of the cottage. I was still so numb that I almost couldn't enjoy the fact that Harry had hired Tom (yay!) to take care of those ultimately responsible for Ruth's death. And the names on the memorial wall? What a poignant and beautiful (and schmaltz-less) way to remember those from the past. (I actually found myself briefly smiling at my memories of them...esp. Z. Younis and R. Myers!) As for the last line? EPIC. As is the man who delivered it.
PF and NW were absolutely brilliant. I know I'm preaching to the choir when I say that on here, but I can't NOT mention how incredible their performances were. It's been said before, but I'll echo that PF almost doesn't need dialogue. He can say more with his face than most people can with pages upon pages of script.
Now, am I happy with the tragic ending? Uh...HELLS NO! (Because, really, who ACTUALLY likes hopeless tragedy?) I desperately wanted Harry and Ruth to find some sort of healing and regain some semblance of humanity TOGETHER. I think that there was HUGE potential for an incredibly beautiful story of redemption (NOT always the same thing as 'happiness', mind you!), but, sadly, producers and writers didn't see it that way. 'Spooks' may not do 'happy' endings, but they certainly DO do redemption. But that didn't happen, so I get over it and move on with my life.
Now let's talk about Ruth: beautiful, quirky, witty, brilliant, honest, caring, forgiving, lovely RUTH. If anyone deserved happiness, it was her. At first I thought her death was ridiculous and pointless. (I mean, come ON! There are two of you and all this boy has is a shard of glass! Put up a fight, at least, or use better stall tactics until D. can get up there with the gun!) But after thinking about it and speaking to some friends who also saw it, it was actually the best way for her to go. It was on her own terms. She CHOSE to step in between Sasha and Harry. She was willing, even after everything, to protect the man she loved. After letting Harry know that she forgave him and loved him ("then leave the service...with ME."), she sacrificed herself freely. I would bet that she had no regrets whatsoever about that. (Sadly, though, I think Harry now has even more!)
But think about it, what are some of the themes which run throughout the 10 seasons? Sacrifice, love and cost. Ian Wylie called the ending 'perfect'. Well, I respectfully disagree, but I WILL say that it was, indeed, 'fitting'.
Also, people are upset that Harry and Ruth seemingly didn't get to physically realise their love and passion for each other. (I mean, really, only THREE kisses? That's it?? C'mon, Kudos, quit being so darn British!
) But I'd like to think that (in the form of true Greek drama) they DID have their moments. We just weren't privy to them as they didn't tie in with the main storyline.I've been too heartbroken to watch the episode a second time through, but maybe I can bring myself to do it one day so I can appreciate it fully.
In the meantime, well done to the all the actors, writers, directors, producers, DOPs, editors, etc. for 10 seasons of pure genius. Long live the box set!
(25-10-2011 11:37 PM)Betty Wrote: I don't really mind if people mock me actuallyI'm sort of mocking myself. Human beings are a funny bunch, and I'm just as funny as the rest of them. At this moment my husband's on the phone explaining to our daughter in college that "Mom doesn't know what to do now since her idol is dead." Her response: "Oh my gosh, they killed RUTH?" She's never even seen the show!! Ha ha
This made me laugh, by the way!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Jax9010 - 26-10-2011 05:26 AM
I've been mulling around this forum for months now and it's been very interesting indeed. I've actually just recently joined because I wanted to comment on this very last episode, however, unlike the majority of fans here, I'm relatively a newbie; a junior recruit as one might put it. My interest in Spooks didn't quite start at the very beginning. In fact, I've only really been aware of it for just over a year (I live stateside, you see), so when I accidentally found out about it and saw it, I was hooked.
It was not until last night when I finally saw the episode in full; without interruptions and I must say that I'm one to join the camp of the predominantly positive. I thought that the series' main story arc was given the closure it needed and that this episode saw some of the best acting I've seen on television. Did I like it? I would say yes, but with sadness.
Series 10 was said to be about Harry, and in this series, we learned more about him personally and professionally that we've ever had. We saw how much more vulnerable he's become because of all the guilt he's been carrying (personally and professionally). We got revelation, after revelation about the history Harry has with the Gavriks and credit to the writers because I think that they tidied that up well. I've suspected since 10.2 and confirmed my hunch after 10.5 that Elena was the primary instigator, however, I must admit that I didn't expect her to be the "better spy". The revelation that Harry was duped didn't make me think less of his character (I read on some that there were comparisons to Lucas' character from series 9). Instead, IMO, it makes him more relatable; more human. Harry, was and always will be a spy first, therefore I found it fitting that despite the devastating loss of Ruth, he couldn't force himself to retire. He went back to work because that's what's all he has left (sadly). As for his and Ruth's relationship, of course I'm devastated they never got the break they deserved, but in reality, they both knew it wouldn't work out. Ruth said it last series when she explained that they couldn't be more together than they already are. They compliment each other professionally more than any other team introduced to us on the Grid, however, personally it's always been a struggle because they both know, deep down, in their chosen line of work, sacrifices are necessary. The H/R moments we had in this series is about as honest as we've seen between their two characters and even though we didn't get the romping and snogging we've grown accustomed to seeing among the younger spooks, it was, to some extent more than we could have ever asked for. Both admitted, not only to each other, but to trusted people as well, how much they mean to each other and that for them, is a major step in their relationship. I'd like to think that the 8 weeks forced leave Harry had prior to the inquiry had plenty of private moments with Ruth, which would probably explain why they were so comfortable with each other on 10.1, so for your guys out there still wishing for some sort of redemption for our hero, consider that thought.
Now, I saw the episode first (in two parts) and my initial reaction is similar to what most of you have already expressed: shocked and gutted, particularly over the last 10 mins of the show. I don't recall feeling like that about anything on telly which is a testament to how great the writing, directing, and especially acting in this penultimate episode was. PF deserved the top billing here--the last 10 mins of show was all him. I think he only had a handful of dialogue and then it was just facial expressions, all of which were absolutely incredible. You can feel for the depth of his despair, guilt, and lost. Right up there with PF is NW. Her portrayal of Ruth's final scenes were so poignant as well as the little bits of smiles here and there (observed her face when she knew Harry arrived at the bunker) which is a testament to her versatility as an actress. Special mention to JH, AK, and TWJ. They were the right trio to portray the family of a Russian oligarch (kudos to the camera director on one slow shot with the trio where Ilya was inside with Elena and with Sacha on the foreground; we see the facial feature similarities JH and TWJ have). From JH's emotionless face while hearing the truth about his wife and while interrogating her, to the way he conveyed meaning in his dialogues was as good as it could get. AK, she was the absolute villain, prob one of the best ones introduced in the entire series. She played that magnificently IMO. TWJ, I know some had reservations about his character, but I think his character development got better and better as the series went along. It reached its pinnacle here and credit to Tom, because he came up with the goods. One of my fave scenes is between him and Harry when he received the phone call from Ilya and the way he hesitated. I thought that was brilliant. The rest of the supporting cast, RSB, LP, MB, and GB, each had their bits here. The HS was my fave of them all. Loved his unconventional descriptions and his tense moments inside COBRA.
Lastly, the cameo of MF as Tom was just the right amount to me. The shot of his brown shoes, the trademark long coat, the camera panning to his face wherein he had the smallest of dialogue but conveying so much was a good way to start wrapping up the series. It was the best introduction to the "raining wall" (symbolism for tears shed over the years) to all the characters we've loved and lost.
Shout out to the writers, of course--without their witty dialogues and gripping story lines, our actors will be lost and the characters we know and have grown to love wouldn't have existed.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Silktie - 26-10-2011 06:32 AM
(25-10-2011 06:44 PM)neuro Wrote:(25-10-2011 12:27 PM)MI4½ AGENT Wrote: OK I'm back to wall again (last time I promise).... why was Ruth's name up there anyway. I thought she was Advisor to the Home Secretary and didn't work for MI5.
Well would you try and stop Harry and the rest of section D putting Ruths name on the memorial.
Hah, yeah, I wouldn't want to be the one to tell a grief-stricken Harry Pearce that Ruth's name couldn't go up on that board.
But she was a very recently retired Officer, who was killed on an active operation, in the line of duty. That would definitely qualify anyone. If Malcolm had been killed by Lucas last season, his name would have been on there for the same reason - he died in the line of duty. The fact that he was retired by then does not take away his right to be there.
(25-10-2011 10:52 PM)Nitrus Wrote: I mocked you because you spent the last 10 series thinking the show was about one thing when it wasn't...
I don't agree with this sentiment. Why MUST the show be the same thing for everyone? In my view, the aim of entertainment is to allow you to connect with something emotionally. We all connect with different aspects of what we are presented with, based on our own life experiences and the emotional baggage we all bring to the table. Just because other people don't connect with the show emotionally for the same reason I do, does not mean their view is invalid.
So I think it's great that so many different views have been expressed. It shows that Spooks was a layered, multi-faceted, high class drama that offered fans many ways to connect emotionally with it. I'd rather have that than something which only offered one thing.
Re Sasha, I struggled throughout the season to work up much sympathy for him, despite everything he has gone through. So yeah, he is on my 'Bad Man!' list for stabbing Ruth. I honestly thought when he picked up that shard he was going to kill Ilya. If only.
So Harry telling Jim Coaver in episode 5 that they'd lied to Elena and then abandoned her was a reference to the fact that they made up that story about how her parents were killed, rather than lying about the extraction. Neat.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Sparky - 26-10-2011 06:49 AM
(25-10-2011 10:52 PM)Nitrus Wrote: I mocked you because you spent the last 10 series thinking the show was about one thing when it wasn't...
Silktie said:
I don't agree with this sentiment. Why MUST the show be the same thing for everyone? In my view, the aim of entertainment is to allow you to connect with something emotionally. We all connect with different aspects of what we are presented with, based on our own life experiences and the emotional baggage we all bring to the table. Just because other people don't connect with the show emotionally for the same reason I do, does not mean their view is invalid.
So I think it's great that so many different views have been expressed. It shows that Spooks was a layered, multi-faceted, high class drama that offered fans many ways to connect emotionally with it. I'd rather have that than something which only offered one thing.
Very good point and well made. Spooks was different things to different people and all viewpoints are equally valid IMO. People shouldn't be ridiculed or have their thoughts dismissed purely because they look at something in a different way to somebody else.
It's taken me a few days to come round to the ending and I'm slowly getting fully OK with it. Having said that, in all honesty, for me I'd rather they both lived and were together even if was for only that final 10 minutes. Didn't need a soapy/lovey ending with them running off hand in hand skipping down the hill to a cottage in the country, just something that would have given more closure to me and them alive and together would have done that for me. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it, no matter what others say!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - DogSoSmall - 26-10-2011 06:54 AM
(26-10-2011 12:33 AM)pennyfeather Wrote: I'm not liking some of the comments im reading about people boycotting the DVD. God knows ive felt tthe despair you've all described but surely after 10 years of hard work and energy by cast and crew, for a show we've watched and loved - if we're to stop that support entirely just because of a tragic ending....idk just seems a pretty poor way to repay an incredible group of creators who have brought such magic to our tv screens for tthe past 10 years....
I mean has anyone here seen the youtube clip where NW and PF talk about the DVD? They are just loving it and jokinga round with looks and glances: they even end with a kiss! Its adorable! These incredible actors who adore each other is just another testament to what can come of working on a show with fantastic people. I dont know about you but watching extras and commentaries will probably help me get over it all.
This is my last word, honestly, and I truly don't know why I'm bothering to try and explain myself to people who just don't get this viewpoint. The only reason to even mention the dvd is because it is the only way to make a point to the programme makers how appalling I found this ending. That is, after all, the only thing that interests them now. Yes, they have all put in ten years of hard work and effort (and been paid for it - no doubt a damn sight more than most of us). And I have put in ten years of faithful support. I felt let down right at the end, and the only way I can manifest that is to let them know that I in turn will be letting them down.
A split opinion means it must have been a pefectly honed end? No. An equally well-written, well-acted, poignant but more uplifting ending would have united opinion in its brilliance. They deliberately chose this path because they get a kick out of controversy. Their reward is fewer sales. That is fair. They have the controversy they sought.
So PF and NW muck about on the video. I'm not a child (ok, I may act like one sometimes when upset, but actually I'm not). It was the story I invested in. Actors come at this from a completely different standpoint. It is an acting challenge, the more tragic the better to showcase their skills. I'm sure they are all thrilled with it. Seeing those two on the dvd is sweet, yes, but it doesn't change the story. Watching them kiss? Is that supposed to make it better? Clearly people think that anyone sad enough to find this end unacceptable can be easily fobbed off by a bit of snog between the actors. I'm not actually that shallow. If it wasn't in the story there is no relevance to the story. For a Peter Firth fan (which I am), this series dvd is probably his crowning glory, the best thing he's done since Equus. But in this instance I find myself not a Peter Firth fan, but a Spooks fan. And I can't get around it. Ten years and the final shot is of Harry Pearce in torment stretching god knows how long into the future? I want to forget that image. I just don't want the dvd anymore. And I want to punish the writers in the only tiny way I know how. I know it won't make a scrap of difference to anyone but me, but by writing about it here it sends a message, however small.
So please stop dissing the people who are using the boycotting of the dvd as the only way they have left to vent their despair. The rest of you have everything you could possibly wish for. All I have is a desire to punch someone (I wonder who I'd choose............?).
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - pennyfeather - 26-10-2011 07:50 AM
Wow didnt realise that opinion would really matter. I didnt mean to sound imposing or anything, didn't even realise you were one of them and in many ways I agree with you about the ending. After all it's been two days and I still feel as if I have a hole in my heart....
I'd just like to point out that just coz i enjoy watching PF and NW chatting and having fun does not make me shallow. I just happen to be one of those people who pretty much only buy dvds unless they have special features. And I enjoy watching and learning about actors/ directors: their experiences onset through interviews or commentaries. Boring for some I know but I'm one of those film geeks. And idk perhaps watching interviews and extras will reconcile me (if only a little) to the ending. This is probably a self-deluding hope but its a hope nonetheless.
Okay you won't buy the Dvd, thats your fight and I respect that. Sorry if I caused any offense.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Ceridwyn2 - 26-10-2011 08:08 AM
Oh, I'm quite aware and appreciate that it is entertainment, and Section D is fictional. That's not up for dispute.
It's eacapist fun.Adam & Fiona were successful while they were together, that's all I meant. At home, they were a 'normal' family. It also set apart how dismal Tom was at it with Ellie in S1 & S2E1.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - DogSoSmall - 26-10-2011 08:31 AM
Pennyfeather, I didn't mean to punch you!
That was more a swipe at the patronising brigade, of whom I know you are not one. I too love the dvd extras, although I can't imagine they would comfort me in this instance.One final (?
) thought. There are clearly two groups here. The first (the grownups/cynics) who can appreciate the artistry, acting, camerawork, even the fittingness of the plot, and rejoice in it. The second (the children/imaginitive dreamers) who have lived it, even if only for an hour a week. For them, Ruth died and Harry was left staring at a bleak future. That is unbearably sad. I wonder which group is really paying the cast and crew of Spooks the highest compliment?RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Ceridwyn2 - 26-10-2011 08:39 AM
Personally, I will get the DVDs eventually...still have to get Series 8 & 9 first (have 1-7). I have 8, 9 & 10 on my Amazon.co.uk wishlist but budgeting is really tight atm, so credit card purchases are out for now.
I love having the BTS ep commentaries as interviews that are on the DVDs, and I get the R2 discs instead of the R1 'MI-5' releases as I have a multi-regional player.