+- Spooks Forum (http://www.spooksforum.co.uk)
+-- Forum: MI5 Operations (/forum-3.html)
+--- Forum: Series 10 (/forum-30.html)
+--- Thread: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion (/thread-1975.html)
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - SweetTea - 23-10-2011 11:35 PM
Hopefully I can stop stop crying long enough to comment.
First off, thanks to my hubby taking control of the kids to give me space to watch the entire series 10 today. I warned him that I would be crying a lot and I wasn't wrong. I feel like I've lost my best friend - not just Ruth but the entire series.
About the episode:
Calum, I wasn't a fan of yours when you started but I adore you now. You were given the best lines. "Bad people want to kill us." If that doesn't sum up Spooks, I don't knoiw what does.
I wasn't surprised when it was revealed that Elena was the instigator, though I was a bit surprised that she was primed for her role before Harry contacted her.
I did love that Harry spent much of the episode with no tie and an open shirt. Thank you to whomever made that decision (Looking back, I needed something to make me smile during this.)
Harry seemed very worried when Elena asked Ruth if she now saw him differently after learning that he faked the file on Elena's parent's death. Ruth's response was, "Yes, I see he's given more than I thought possible." Harry seemed to be touched by that, that Ruth wasn't going to run from him because of that. Smile.
Loved that Ruth took Elena to task for using Sasha in her ploy against Harry.
The writers actually made me feel bad for Ilya - congrats on that because I didn't think that would happen.
Nicola was so freaking brilliant in this episode, probably because she knew she'd be dead by the end. I shouldn't say that because Nicola has always given a top-notch performance as Ruth. Thank you to her for that.
SRB has been brillant as Towers - funny lines that I can't remember now but always delieverd just right. Is it just me or did he lose the fireplace that was in his office in Series 9?
As soon as Ilya asked to speak with Ruth alone, I knew he was planning to kill Elena. Not the least bit upset about it, except for the fact that it led to Ruth's death at the hands of Sasha, though I do believe Sasha was planning to attack Harry. I do think that Harry knew what was going on when Ruth asked for the key, so he may also feel quite quilty about that as well.
Even though Sasha was the one to kill Ruth, I do feel badly for him. He and Elena were obviously quite close, and to learn of her deception and lies was very difficult. I am glad that Sasha turned out to be Ilya's son, because had Ruth died at the hands of Harry's son, it would have been too much for Harry I think. The emotion that PF showed at Ruth's death was absolutely heartbreaking (well done, PF!)
I'd totally forgotten about Tom appearing in the episode, but that's a testiment to the writing that it could make me forget. Too bad we didn't see more of him or even a meeting between Harry and Tom, but I know there are a number of very talented Fanfic writers that will do that justice. I'd love to think that Tom would be quite willing to help avenge Ruth's death.
When Harry arrived at the house with the green door, the tears were back on full throttle.
I still didn't see Tariq's name on the wall, but it was nice to see everyone elses. Was Helen's name on the wall? I thought it started with Danny.
Seriously, there is a part of me that knows this is the best way to end Spooks, but there is a much bigger part of me that is really really pissed that Harry and Ruth never got their time together. Not even one measly "I Love You" between the two. Of course, I fully expected Ruth's voice to be on the other end of the phone call that Harrty received at the end of the ep. I guess since we never heard that I can still believe she didn't die and it was her at the end.
I think what I'd like to see now is an interview with PF and NW (whether separate or together) about the ending now that they can discuss and be honest about it. They had to be cryptic about it before it aired - obviously - but now I want their real thoughts. I guess RPJ wasn't kidding when he said there was a death and it was so sad.
The funny part for me is that in real life I'm a realist/pesimist. I'd rather think the worst will happen and be pleasant surprised at the end, rather than hope for the best and be disappointed. For some reason, with Spooks, I took the opptomist route and was holding out for a happy ending. It's been an hour and I'm still red-faced from crying and in denial about Ruth's death. I'll be fine in a few days - able to discuss this with rationality. But right now, I have one glass of wine to finish and a few tears left to cry. On the whole, I thought the episode was so very well done. I kept me on the edge of my seat even without being all out action sequences.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - one true voice - 23-10-2011 11:47 PM
Totally got mixed feelings about the ending, on one hand it was fitting to the show; the whole idea that life continues and there is always another battle to fight hence Harry remaining at the grid (although he didn't seem to have a lot left; which is itself another talking point!). But I can't help the over-ridding feeling of disappointment that Ruth and Harry never actually admitted their feelings for each other (something wonderful that was never said hey?!). I trying to look on the basis that a happy ending isn't Spooks but surly one couldn't have hurt.
As for the rest of the episode,I already had doubts about Elena therefore I wasn't particularly surprised when it was revealed she was double-crossing Harry. Tom's return for all of two minutes seemed dare I say, pointless, what was it to soften the blow to all us fans who were already accepting that there was no surprise recovery for Ruth. (Yes I was half expecting her to meet Harry at the house; wouldn't be unlike Spooks to give us a twist afterall). Although my dad (who is a paramedic) explained that they couldn't do CPR because she was bleeding internally and it wasn't possible to inflate her lung in time (therefore my optimism was short lived). Personally I thought it was a nice touch to see all the names at the end almost as though they were trying to get us to reflect upon all the series without having to use flash-backs which would have been cheesy.
Therefore my appreciation and thanks goes to the cast and crew for making a drama which has had me laughing, crying, hiding behind my hands but most of all eagerly awaiting more.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - daphne - 24-10-2011 01:17 AM
Shakespeare said if you have tears, prepare to shed them now..
seems as succinct, resonant, and inevitable as Callum's last great line--
ah, Harry and Ruth!
and how ironic and tragic that, while everyone's head is unavoidably preoccupied with political tactics and the saving of blissfully unaware, innocent lives, the "bomb" that is fatefully, completely overlooked is one very human, young man.. who has been ticking away for 2 entire episodes (since planting a bug in Harry's car).
how far can you push a mind? !
what Sasha goes through in his last days of life..! his political loyalty in the balance? a gun held to his head by a man he believed for a couple of days to be his father? his mother risking his life, exposing herself as a fanatic? the horror of witnessing his father murder this mother?
maybe that is what Spooks is about, ultimately.
how do these MI-5s do, see, learn the things they have to do, see and learn- and still stay themselves. as Ruth's last invitation to Harry so eloquently states--
the measure of Harry Pearce's heroism is that he is, still, Harry Pearce at the last.
maybe Harry Pearce and Ruth Evershed OFF 'the grid', on the seashore.. would not have been quite "themselves"- or, at least, not in the way we knew them.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Agent Acme - 24-10-2011 01:27 AM
Ok, I've had time to reflect a little on the final episode of spooks....I still hate the killing of Ruth and will never forgive the writers and Kudos for that...but I can see the reasoning behind it a little.
How else were they going to get Harry in front of the memorial paying his respects to those who made the ultimate sacrifice. Regnum Defende indeed! .....and so they go on....heartbreakingly poignant.
....but I still hate it!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - loladom - 24-10-2011 01:34 AM
(23-10-2011 09:35 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: No words really. It could have worked. A happy ending.
I will never get over the fact Harry Pearce is left to spend the rest of his life alone. He never did catch "that break."
I should stop writing now as I will say something I may regret in a day or two. At this moment though, being a fan of ten years, I feel let down by the ending. IMO it was not the right ending. Not at all.
I don't have words for the amazing scenes in this episode that have been pushed away due to the ending.
A question though, to support my disappointment - how is this the promised 'definitive' ending? Harry alone, back at work to carry on? Hell, another series is more than possible. A definitive ending would have been Harry dead, in exile or leaving the service. Not left to carry on heartbroken to retirement. He's done that before. So, (my feelings about Ruth aside) just HOW is it a definitive ending?
There's no perfection in this ending at all. Kudos weren't brave enough to either go for Harry or to let it end on a happy note, even the last few seconds.
A brilliant episode, but spoilt by the ending. If you want to use shock and awe, then learn how to utilise it. Suppose I'm too angry right now, so better avoid twitter and this series writer's bragging.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Agent Acme - 24-10-2011 01:53 AM
(24-10-2011 01:34 AM)loladom Wrote:(23-10-2011 09:35 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: No words really. It could have worked. A happy ending.
I will never get over the fact Harry Pearce is left to spend the rest of his life alone. He never did catch "that break."
I should stop writing now as I will say something I may regret in a day or two. At this moment though, being a fan of ten years, I feel let down by the ending. IMO it was not the right ending. Not at all.
I don't have words for the amazing scenes in this episode that have been pushed away due to the ending.
A question though, to support my disappointment - how is this the promised 'definitive' ending? Harry alone, back at work to carry on? Hell, another series is more than possible. A definitive ending would have been Harry dead, in exile or leaving the service. Not left to carry on heartbroken to retirement. He's done that before. So, (my feelings about Ruth aside) just HOW is it a definitive ending?
There's no perfection in this ending at all. Kudos weren't brave enough to either go for Harry or to let it end on a happy note, even the last few seconds.
A brilliant episode, but spoilt by the ending. If you want to use shock and awe, then learn how to utilise it. Suppose I'm too angry right now, so better avoid twitter and this series writer's bragging.
I couldn't agree more, there are still so many loose ends:
Harry was only back temporarily...Albany enquiry still hangs over him. So are we meant to believe because Ruth is dead, it no longer matters?
The Americans have suddenly had a change of heart, and forgive him for Jim Coaver's death?
The only definitive thing the writers have ended is the wonder, beauty and sometimes painful relationship, non-relationship that was Ruth and Harry!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - festa - 24-10-2011 02:25 AM
You British with your "stiff upper lips' and quiet desperation. Would it have killed the writers to let Ruth and Harry have a little roll in the hay first.... how about a long smoldering kiss?
I am so annoyed!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Scarlet - 24-10-2011 02:27 AM
I have to say........ I feel totally let down by that last episode. Not only the ending but the revelation of everything else seemed too predictable and I thought the whole thing was very flat, especially after last week's episode. I thought they were going to reveal that someone else was behind it. Elena being the guilty party was so obvious in my mind I never thought they;d go down that route at all. I also agree with others that Tom's return was pathetic. No reason at all for him to have returned. How long was he on screen? Two seconds? That's not to say PF and NW weren't amazing as they were but it was heartbreaking. Come on Kudos, after all the trouble the fans went to to get Ruth back, you just couldn't end it happily for those two and kill someone else off instead? I'm sorry I don't agree that it would have been too cheesy - they could have done it subtly. I also don't agree that it would not have been in spooks style for Harry and Ruth to have had a happy ending. Zoe and Tom did. And I think Ruth was just as popular as Zoe, if not more. I think it was actually more predictable ands sensationalist for them to do it rather than have a happier ending. I am devastated to have had my suspicions proved right. I had a feeling they would kill Ruth off all along. I might be feel differently when I have calmed down but I doubt it somehow. A waste of ten years is what I think. So many more exciting avenues they could have gone down. And as for the final line being really wonderful - maybe its just me but I didn't see it. I completely disagree with Ian Wylie that this was Spooks finest hour - in fact I think it was their worst.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - loladom - 24-10-2011 03:29 AM
Another thing I feel disappointed with is that we have all driven ourselves potty over possible plots/clues, symbolgy, hidden meanings etc. which is testament to some of the creativity of the fans! We have given the writers and producers more credit than is deserved.
In the end, the overall plot was weak. The entire series had week threats of the day to build up an intriguing story arc which in the end was pretty much a non story. All the revelations were predicted on here after ep3. They gave us too many clues, too early on. We were all looking for something deeper and more complicated as a result. I felt exactly the same about the Lucas North saga.
Please don't think I'm taking anything away from the fabulous and at times beautiful acting and directing, because I'm not. Those scenes were heartbreaking thanks to PF&NW. I've read many times a happy ending wouldn't be possible because Spooks isn't a soap opera, but the overall purpose of this story arc seems to be to conclude the H&R story by (predictably) killing Ruth and leaving Harry in despair. Doesn't get more soapy than that. Only PF&NW rescued it from that. It in no way ends the show. Ruth left before, Harry has been alone, crushed and heartbroken before.
Another thing being that they made Harry look a bit of a pleb by believing Elena about the plane. It was Ruth, not Harry who averted disaster. I suppose I wanted the show to end with Harry the hero or H&R together. Not this empty despair.
All too 'meh' for me. I can't even find it in my heart to use a real adjective. Perhaps I need to step back and give it some time. The problem is, I just can't bear the thought of a re-watch.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - nimax1 - 24-10-2011 04:02 AM
So PF had it right all along: unquestionably a Greek tragedy. I keep thinking between sniffles that I will never watch a single episode again knowing how it ends and then in calmer moments remember that I have seen Oedipus, Medea, King Lear, Hamlet over and over again --- always hoping that it will end differently and knowing that it won't. Tragedy -- ANd there is Harry afterward going on because it is unchangeable and he can do nothing else. As much as I wish it had been different there really was no other way for this to end.
The most heartbreaking moments - Harry in the car listening to the Home Secretary's message - what a lovely job by Simon Russell Beale - Harry hearing Ruth's voice in the kitchen - Harry's face sitting at his desk and the final negative by which time I was blind with tears.
It will be awhile before I can look at this all again but I know that somewhere down the road I will. But, tonight, there is only a heavy heart.
Calum's last line is quite apropos......And that is what Spooks has always shown to all of us.