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+--- Thread: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion (/thread-1975.html)
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - A Cousin - 24-10-2011 04:50 AM
I feel completely drained and shocked and numb and devastated and heart-broken and confused and a million other things. In a nutshell, exactly how Harry must feel. PF - you are incredible!
I think I am going to polish off the rest of my high ball of Laphroiag, go curl up in my (very real) darling husbands arms now and be very thankful that we do not work for MI-5.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Ceridwyn2 - 24-10-2011 04:55 AM
(24-10-2011 01:53 AM)Agent Acme Wrote:(24-10-2011 01:34 AM)loladom Wrote:(23-10-2011 09:35 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: No words really. It could have worked. A happy ending.
I will never get over the fact Harry Pearce is left to spend the rest of his life alone. He never did catch "that break."
I should stop writing now as I will say something I may regret in a day or two. At this moment though, being a fan of ten years, I feel let down by the ending. IMO it was not the right ending. Not at all.
I don't have words for the amazing scenes in this episode that have been pushed away due to the ending.
A question though, to support my disappointment - how is this the promised 'definitive' ending? Harry alone, back at work to carry on? Hell, another series is more than possible. A definitive ending would have been Harry dead, in exile or leaving the service. Not left to carry on heartbroken to retirement. He's done that before. So, (my feelings about Ruth aside) just HOW is it a definitive ending?
There's no perfection in this ending at all. Kudos weren't brave enough to either go for Harry or to let it end on a happy note, even the last few seconds.
A brilliant episode, but spoilt by the ending. If you want to use shock and awe, then learn how to utilise it. Suppose I'm too angry right now, so better avoid twitter and this series writer's bragging.
I couldn't agree more, there are still so many loose ends:
Harry was only back temporarily...Albany enquiry still hangs over him. So are we meant to believe because Ruth is dead, it no longer matters?
The Americans have suddenly had a change of heart, and forgive him for Jim Coaver's death?
The only definitive thing the writers have ended is the wonder, beauty and sometimes painful relationship, non-relationship that was Ruth and Harry!
I suspect that Harry or the HS was able to provide evidence of some sort that the Russians were behind the death of Coaver.
As for the Albany Inquiry, I believe there are still folks within the upper echelons of Whitehall that would love for nothing better than to hang Harry out to dry, but at the same time, I think it might be a matter of the 'devil' they know (Harry) is better than that they don't know...Harry has lines he won't cross (such as not shooting Sasha in that room even though he was trying to get Elena to talk). Elena on the other hand was more than willing to sacrifice her son for keeping her loyalties to her 'country'.
Harry, and possibly the HS, doesn't entirely trust the JIC and whomever they might choose to put in charge of Section D - I don't pretend to think that they would leave Erin Watts in charge on a permanent basis. After the end of this ep, it seemed evident that the HS nor the team actually expected Harry to be back - not because of Albany, but because of his grief over Ruth's death. They knew that he loved her (even though no one - other than Elena - actually spoke it aloud).
Even though I was gutted at the end of the episode, I do have to admit the episode was very well written. Lots of twists and turns. Up until Sasha stabbed Ruth, I actually felt sorry for him. In a very short span of time, he's learned that his mother was an MI-5 asset, that Harry was his father, and then his whole world was turned upside down again. He's not sure who he really is.
The episode had some really great stuff that had me on edge, and with a lump in my throat.
I love that as much as Harry wanted to, he couldn't stay in the house that Ruth had been looking at, without her.
Peter Firth & Nicola Walker - absolutely fabulous.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Sparky - 24-10-2011 05:53 AM
I've given myself a few hours to calm down before posting my response aas my initial reaction was pure devastation! I haven't moved on completely from that, but I have watched it a second time, and though I personally think they chose the wrong ending, I can kind of see why they did it. As a few others have said in this thread, Spooks/Kudos don't do happy endings!.
Up until the 50th minute or so I thought it was one of the best episodes Spooks had done, up there with the greats. The tension was high and I was on the edge of my seat. The acting from all the main players was fantastic (H/R, Gavriks and HS) and I genuinely didn't know what was going to happen (obviously as it turned out)!
Ruth's death seemed to be something that Kudos felt they needed to do for a reaction. My issue isn't the fact that she died, it's how she died. If Elena had lunged for her in a tense scene during the time in the bunker, or if she'd been caught in a bigger bomb blast or in genuinely saving Harry's life I could have lived with it. But for want of a better term, it was as other have said 'Meh'. Yes, in a way she was saving Harry but there was no tension, no build up, it just happened and really didn't need to! She kind of walked into Sasha and I really don't believe a piece of glass that size would kill someone so quickly!
The death scene itself was heartbreaking, purely down to PF and NW's acting. It would have had more impact with a better script and just the 2 of them there. The others distracted from that. I think the fact that Ruth's last line ever indicated that she didn't think they deserved a normal life could have also been much improved - a women's touch was needed I think. Although I did quite like the conversation about the house and Harry saying thay would live there and make a home there together! The fact that they never told each other they loved each other didn't bother me, I think they just both knew how the other felt and have done all series. That taking the love for granted I thought was well done and in keeping with the characters.
The final scene between H/R where for all of 2 seconds they were going to leave and live together was beatifully done (until Sasha popped along) and I think would have been an apt finish (in my head anyway). In the smiling at each other it felt that they were on the same page for the first time since 5.3 when Harry asked her out for the first time, and that they were finally, at last, able to move on together. I am gutted that we didn't get a kiss though - well until she was dead!
Other things that rankled, again as others have said, is that I think we've given to much credit to the writers, picking up on things/clues way more than they ever intended. Things that they could have used but chose not to.
I'm also unsure at the definate ending that Kudos talked about! Harry, to me, was the show. And as much as I loved Ruth, she's left before and both Harry and the show carried on. For me more definate endings would have included Harry or both of them dying or them leaving MI5 either together or apart! I'd have preferred a cliff hanger instead of the 'life goes on' theme, too similar to 5.6, with Harry back on the Grid with a broken heart.
The end scenes were all beatifully done, Harry at the house, in the car, at the memorial and returning to the Grid but felt too rushed in a way. And I'm also confused at why he's suddenly allowed back, there's still Albany (which I guess the HS could have got him out of) but also Jim Coaver's death. It was as if, oh Ruth's dead, you're obviously heartbroken, we'll sweep all this other nasty business underneath the carpet shall we!
From what I've said it probably sounds like I hate this episode and I really don't! I've thoroughly enjoyed the 10th series and will buy the DVD and, in time, watch again, I just think they chose the wrong ending and for me it could and should have been better. I'm looking forward to hearing the final episode commentary from the writers where hopefully they'll give an insight into the thinking behind the end!
Rant over - I also enjoyed Tom's vey brief return, the smiles from Harry and Ruth when they saw each other again, Ruth defending Harry to Elena and some of the lines from Harry, Calum and the HS throughout.
My eyes are now dry though my heart is still in my stomach, and writing this has been a little like therapy - I feel a bit better already!
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Nitrus - 24-10-2011 06:15 AM
I thought this episode was the perfect end to the series and indeed the show, I was really scared that Harry & Ruth might end up retiring on the Suffolk coast or Harry wouldn't return to work but neither of those happened thankfully. To see Ruth die was moving and Harry's reaction was written brilliantly and that was how it should have been. Ruth said it perfectly herself 'We we never meant to have those things' or something like that.
The rest of the episode was classic Spooks, a situation where there was imminent danger and intelligence sourced from someone no one trusts. Spending the majority of the episode figuring out who was telling the truth and what was happening with plane was a good storyline to end on. It even had Harry directly threatening the life of someone else in order to protect the country, which is rare in the show and therefore perfect for the final episode.
The scene where Harry visits that memorial has just become my favourite Spooks scene in history, it was beautiful and moving. To see the names of former characters who died for Harry and their country was a brilliant testament to the show and what it achieves so well as drama.
Tom's cameo was brilliant if a little short, I would've liked a final conversation between him and Harry. It was good to know that Tom was alright and what he'd been doing all these years, his cameo was perfect for the last episode and I wasn't expecting it. I wish someone would've filmed me watching this episode, the amount of times I jumped off the couch cheering/wolf whistling and clapping.
I've read people claiming that Spooks lost a lot of its audience last night because it wasn't a happy ending and no doubt the HR crowd are all crushed. All I will say to those people is this, if you honestly expected Harry and Ruth to have a happy ending or even Harry to leave just because Ruth died, then you've been watching the wrong show for 9 years and you shouldn't call yourself a fan.
That ending was everything I could've wanted out of a finale, I'm glad the writers didn't let me down and more importantly, they didn't let the show down.
Favourite line: "This is likely to come up in your pay review." - Delivered perfectly by PF.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - khandy - 24-10-2011 06:27 AM
Oh dear I am disappointed on so many levels. Disappointed that the series is over to start with Ten years is long time. Disappointed because I have found the whole of this last series to be really weak and tired and so it is sad that for me at least it ended this way. I have gone over why I thought that and I suppose that because of all the deaths in last three series so many new characters were introduced and I found I didn't care about them because I didn't know them.
I have to say I have never been a Harry Ruth shipper but I know thousands are. This whole last series seems to have been for the Harry and Ruth Fans. I was disappointed for them that they didn't get their happy ending. Also why did nobody attempt basic CPR the adrenaline thing was just plain stupid almost like the writers knowing that sometimes as part of ressucitation adrenaline is used so why don't we throw that it. Just plain lazy.
So I shall miss Spooks but it deserved a better exit than this soap style ending.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - JHyde - 24-10-2011 07:26 AM
I was going to write my long post tonight but I am too tired.
Instead I shall simply say for now that I loved it.
I shall be back tomorrow with more to say but I was very happy with the ending. And I say that as someone who adored Ruth and was very fond of HR.
(Oh and John Bateman wasn't on the wall because HE WAS A TRAITOR! I hate to admit it but it's true. Were you looking for Connie too?!)
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Deb p - 24-10-2011 07:33 AM
I cried buckets over Ruth because Harry and Ruth's relationship has smouldered under the surface from the beginning but it was an inevitable ending, It wouldn't have been Spooks if they had walked off into the sunset together.
The final scenes convinced me that this brilliant Drama could come back sometime in the future. Maybe its wishful thinking but the door has been left wide open for a return to the grid. I hope the BBC come to their senses and bring it back. Just also want to say a big Thank you to all the actors and actresses who have been involved in Spooks. We have watched and re-watched the series from the beginning and Autumn will never be the same again.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Onion Terror - 24-10-2011 08:01 AM
(23-10-2011 10:15 PM)Onion Terror Wrote:(23-10-2011 09:37 PM)The Grid Wrote: the Home Secretary told Harry he had to use an outside source to deal with the guy that was behind the attack (Elena's boss)... so I think Harry hired Tom to go to Russia as a hitman and kill Elena's boss for him.
I could be wrong but I got the impression tbaf Harry wasn't responsible for contracting Tom as the hitman. Seemed to me that this had already been arranged by persons unknown and the HS was simply advising Harry that Elenas boss would be taken care of. Definitely need a re-watch now, firstly to satisfy my curiosity about this particular bit and secondly, just for the sake of watching it again.
Just rewatched that last 10 minutes and yes, Harry DID hire Tom. I am an idiot. Must've been too shocked about Ruths demise to pay full attention to what the HS was saying.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Tess24 - 24-10-2011 08:05 AM
I've seen the episode twice, slept on it (badly) and I still feel physically sick and completely cheated! I knew I shouldn't have watched it (and did actually pause before switching channel) then I could have lived in blissful ignorance.
I've been with Kudos and the writers all along, admiring their wanton disregard for the life of an officer and the good of the country and I was very happy to travel all the inevitable twists and turns of the episode right up until the 52nd minute. What on earth were you thinking?
I could understand if this was a series finale and there was another one on the way but this was the final episode EVER did the audience not deserve something good to come out of 10 years of loyalty. I know some people will say that the lore of the show shouldn't change just because it was the last episode but it just seemed a bit lazy, resorting to type instead of being brave and doing something out of the box. It's easy to kill people off, we know this, it's been done before. I've watched enough TV in my time to see that there are no writers who can write a proper relationship between characters after such a long will they-won't they but there were 6 minutes left (ever) so that certainly wasn't an issue. Nobody wanted hearts and flowers and walking off into the sunset holding hands that is definitely not what Spooks is about and it's not why I watched the show - schmultz is for soaps (and I don't watch them either). I suppose in my heart of hearts I should have known better, that a minute moment of happiness was too much to ask for and it's my own fault for getting my hopes up.
Whilst Ruth made a noble sacrifice (again) for Harry it wasn't necessary. So, Harry has lost a lot of officers (great scene at the memorial) and I'm not just saying this because Ruth died but how is he not eating his own gun by now? Is he really that good an officer, Regnum Defende and all, is he now completely dead inside or does he just have a plethora of 'Keep Calm and Carry On' memorabilia out of our sight.
What was the point of Tom's return? So, Harry could easily find him or knew where he was all long and Tom would be ok killing someone for him (at least I'm assuming that's what he was supposed to have done Macfadyen's one line didn't elucidate on his intentions!) - who cares?
However, one shining grace and thorough joy was watching PF, NW and AK play out their scenes with true aplomb. Amazing performances from all of them, they can not be faulted.
Apologies for the rant. Feel free to completely disregard this post but I am still furious. Suffice to say I won't be investing in another TV show or characters again.
RE: Series 10 - Episode 6 Discussion - Nitrus - 24-10-2011 08:09 AM
(24-10-2011 08:05 AM)Tess24 Wrote: Suffice to say I won't be investing in another TV show or characters again.
Oh give over. Stop being so melodramatic.
I say again, anyone who expected or wanted happiness shouldn't have been watching Spooks. The show did what it did well and I would have hated for it to become something it wasn't after 10 series. That was the whole point of the last 10 minutes, to show that even though there has been terrible sacrifice, Harry carries on doing what he does best because that's who he is.
Making Harry leave the service just because Ruth died would've been a horrible betrayal of his character and who he is.
How are people not getting this?