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+--- Thread: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas (/thread-433.html)
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 09-10-2010 12:12 PM
Harry lectured Lucas about not getting Sarah vetted last series and Lucas has just gone and done the same thing again. Ignoring Harry and starting a relationship with Maya, without getting her vetted. If this was the real world, I am sure you would be sacked for that sort of breach, having already been warned. Harry really needs to wake up and start keeping an eye on Lucas. Perhaps Harry just hasn't the energy to baby-sit Lucas anymore.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 09-10-2010 01:48 PM
(09-10-2010 12:12 PM)Tea Lady Wrote: Harry lectured Lucas about not getting Sarah vetted last series and Lucas has just gone and done the same thing again. Ignoring Harry and starting a relationship with Maya, without getting her vetted. If this was the real world, I am sure you would be sacked for that sort of breach, having already been warned. Harry really needs to wake up and start keeping an eye on Lucas. Perhaps Harry just hasn't the energy to baby-sit Lucas anymore.
Harry does seem to be blissfully ignorant to the actions of Lucas, doesn't he? He has been very involved in his crisis and maybe his eye is off the ball? Not that Lucas is sharing anything at this point. Lucas is most certainly not telling the whole truth and Harry is trying to do better at that these days. (Thus the we do not lie to each other line.)
So here's my theory - Harry and Lucas are a lot alike, brilliant at their jobs - tough, resourceful, brilliant in the field - but their tragic flaw (if you will) is that they both have a very difficult time reconciling their personal lives with their professional lives. Harry is only vulnerable when his personal life crosses the line into his private life, e.g. Catherine, Ruth in 5.5, the guy that recruited him in S7, etc. Lucas is the same with his parade of women. I am beginning to think that Harry sees a lot of himself in Lucas.
There is a parallel playing out here. It lends a whole different level to his saying to Ruth that Sometimes you have to give a man a chance to show you who they really are.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Naivety - 09-10-2010 05:15 PM
I'm curious to know what Lucas found out when he checked out Vaughn with his level A clearance. And by the way wouldn't Harry have a way of knowing if someone is checking the Level A files? I would have thought it'd be flagged up in some way.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 09-10-2010 06:26 PM
Interesting. So you're saying Harry's words had a triple meaning. Including Lucas. I would guess that their systems would record who looked at them and maybe Harry does some sort of audit. I just don't think Lucas could look at that Vaughn file without someone else knowing, especially if he can not justify viewing the record.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Naivety - 09-10-2010 07:22 PM
I don't know about a triple meaning, but Lucas wouldn't have been able to view that file until after Harry made him the official Section Chief and raised his clearance level. Which makes what Harry said about trust more significant. Does Ruth have Level A clearance? If she does, maybe she will discover that Lucas is being a naughty boy and have to go through the dilemma of having to tell Harry. The deception is going to come out sooner or later, and Harry is going to be devastated.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 11-10-2010 03:18 PM
I wasn't speaking in a literal sense, more as a writers technique to foreshadow events. The characters would have no idea.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 15-10-2010 05:26 AM
Whatever is going on, Lucas and Harry are heading for a confrontation most definitely, my hope is that they both come out of it more trusting of each other and stronger in their bond!!!
I bet Harry now wishes he had talked to Lucas "properly" like he said in the first episode of Series 7!
What always intrigues me is how Harry/Lucas doesn't trust each other one second, then they do the next. I mean, Harry called Lucas to help with the Sugarhorse thing in Moscow, he clearly trusted Lucas to get the job done.
There's something that clearly holds those two together, I just hope we see more of that bond. Please Spooks writers, don't destroy it!
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - HellsBells - 06-12-2010 02:12 PM
(15-10-2010 05:26 AM)BravoNine Wrote: There's something that clearly holds those two together, I just hope we see more of that bond. Please Spooks writers, don't destroy it!
Well I think the writers destroyed the bond between Harry and Lucas without any explanation as to why these two seemed so close. In 9.7 (I think) Harry asked Ruth if he was protecting Lucas more than he was protecting her (or something like that), but I didn't see Harry protecting Lucas at all. Why didn't Harry do more to protect Lucas?
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 06-12-2010 02:21 PM
(06-12-2010 02:12 PM)HellsBells Wrote:(15-10-2010 05:26 AM)BravoNine Wrote: There's something that clearly holds those two together, I just hope we see more of that bond. Please Spooks writers, don't destroy it!
Well I think the writers destroyed the bond between Harry and Lucas without any explanation as to why these two seemed so close. In 9.7 (I think) Harry asked Ruth if he was protecting Lucas more than he was protecting her (or something like that), but I didn't see Harry protecting Lucas at all. Why didn't Harry do more to protect Lucas?
The writers more than destroyed it, they obliterated it, tore it apart into tiny pieces!
What I got in the end wasn't even worth watching with how they shattered their bond. Those two always had something between them, and the writers simply threw it all away for the sake of a far-fetched storyline.
You are right, Harry didn't do more to protect Lucas at all. It's such a shame, after Lucas risking his life to save Harry and get him out of the Sugar-Horse situation, I would have expected more from Harry to try and save Lucas. Giving Lucas enough rope to hang himself on was not what I had looking for!
Harry didn't try hard enough, the tone in his voice was never sincere and true, he let Lucas down in Moscow, and he let Lucas down again.
And damn the writers, they took what could have been an interesting exploration into Harry and Lucas's relationship and turned it into some twisted contest of who wins. It's silly and it's an insult and disgrace to what Lucas and Harry's storylines could have been.
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - HellsBells - 06-12-2010 02:36 PM
The Harry/Lucas relationship had been alluded to in previous series. For example Ros (s7)stated 'Harry sweated blood to get (Lucas) back, he'd rather die than let anything happen to Lucas'. Even Sarah (S8) asked what is it between you and Harry. Again it points to the writers not taking on board what had been said in earlier series
(06-12-2010 02:21 PM)BravoNine Wrote: You are right, Harry didn't do more to protect Lucas at all. It's such a shame, after Lucas risking his life to save Harry and get him out of the Sugar-Horse situation, I would have expected more from Harry to try and save Lucas. Giving Lucas enough rope to hang himself on was not what I had looking for!
Harry didn't try hard enough, the tone in his voice was never sincere and true, he let Lucas down in Moscow, and he let Lucas down again.
Harry did indeed just give Lucas enough rope to hang himself even after saying that they would help Lucas when needed.