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[spoilers] Lucas and his tattoos
05-01-2011, 11:09 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2011 11:11 PM by Byatil.)
Post: #161
RE: [spoilers] Lucas and his tattoos
(05-01-2011 10:29 PM)binkie Wrote:  I'm going to say this, because I'm still too cross not to point it out AGAIN: I know this is what season 9 wants us to conclude. But the writing didn't give us (or the story) enough to go on to make this a logical conclusion within the narrative. If only there had been more effort put into demonstrating how the cognitive sustenance of Lucas-is-John actually functioned, we would be better able to establish a logic for the tattoos across seasons 7/8/9. As it is, we can't reasonably do this, because we haven't the necessary character information. I can't believe how annoyed I still (still!) am that the show is under the impression that "because we say so" is a good enough execution of rehtorical responsibility. It isn't. It just isn't Dodgy

Too right it isn't! It's intensely frustrating, because the tattoos were such an interesting part of Lucas' character. I somehow don't think we're ever going to get over this Sad

(05-01-2011 10:29 PM)binkie Wrote:  
(05-01-2011 01:39 PM)Byatil Wrote:  ...he has learned to keep his mouth shut and not to give too much away, because as soon as he is void of information he is worthless.

Byatil, this is a brilliant turn of phrase. Can you expand on it? I'm really interested in your reading of this.

Hm, I refrained from expanding because I'm sure I've made the point before (but that may have been within my mind at 4 o'clock in the morning when I tend to sink into Spooks analysis to try and get to sleep!) but I'll work under the assumption that I didn't say anything Wink

I was considering the fact that Lucas' 'worth' is based purely around what he knows, and how he handles this information. I'm assuming that if he had 'broken' under interrogation and told the Russians all his secrets, they would have killed him. He would no longer be a valuable asset (I doubt they'd bargain with him if he had given them what they wanted to know? This is pure speculation as I have no real idea of the inner-workings of espionage trade-offs).
Therefore, it becomes imperative that Lucas can handle information without giving anything (or too much) away. As you've mentioned before, he often covers his mouth when he's stressed - body language that implies that instinct to keep schtum. The tattoos are a necessity, so I wonder if he purposefully used imagery that not only sheltered him from 'interrogation' (from colleagues, friends, family) but also from revealing too much about himself. The images are carefully constructed to tell the intended recipient (if we assume that some of the tattoos were supposed to convey particular things to particular people, which I would say they do after seeing various characters interact differently with the tattoos, and the way Lucas purposefully shows Harry certain phrases in 7.1) what he wants them to know, but no more. If you watch the way Lucas' character 'comes to terms' with reality again, it's interesting to note that he never actually expresses himself to his colleagues. We understand the horrors of his torture through flashbacks, but these flashbacks are never fully revealed to the other characters. From my knowledge of S7, the most anyone gets out of Lucas is that he was very lonely in Russia, with "only [Katchimov for] company", that he can't sleep because he is plagued by nightmares, and that he blames Harry for what happened to him. And of course; the tattoos.
If we compare his experience to that of Jo's, it's actually quite interesting to see how differently they handle themselves. Jo resorts to frantic running; Lucas resorts to masquerading as a double-agent. They both eventually turn to their jobs as an escape from their own minds. Jo sees the man who raped her (his name escapes me) in random faces in the street; Lucas is literally plagued by the bad memory embodied in Dasharvin. Jo completely breaks down, often in public. Lucas has lapses in control. He refuses to break down.
Perhaps the tattoos are a form of resistance. They act as a barrier whilst telling the story he wants people to know. Whilst they are present, he doesn't need to explain himself. Whilst they are present, he is still worth something. The tattoos themselves contain information - his very skin is engraved with pieces of code. If he can successfully keep his secrets, get back to his 'old life', and be 'normal' again, he feels worthwhile. It's all about control, and the tattoos seem to be an integral part of that.

I seem to have rambled completely off-topic in places there, but I hope it still (somewhat?!) makes sense!

Gnothi Seauton.
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Messages In This Thread
[spoilers] Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 29-11-2009, 10:26 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Nitrus - 29-11-2009, 01:02 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 29-11-2009, 01:07 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Nitrus - 29-11-2009, 01:14 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 29-11-2009, 01:26 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 20-11-2010, 06:20 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 21-11-2010, 02:00 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - KitKat385 - 21-11-2010, 05:52 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 29-11-2009, 04:55 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - lwhite53 - 29-11-2009, 05:22 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Snowball - 30-11-2009, 12:54 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 30-11-2009, 12:05 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 30-11-2009, 12:43 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 30-11-2009, 01:46 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 30-11-2009, 02:58 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 30-11-2009, 04:34 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 01-12-2009, 02:33 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 03-12-2009, 11:07 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Margaret - 03-12-2009, 12:14 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 03-12-2009, 12:23 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Eiger - 03-12-2009, 12:59 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 03-12-2009, 01:24 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Lucasfan - 03-12-2009, 01:59 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 03-12-2009, 02:12 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 04-12-2009, 12:51 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 05-12-2009, 11:45 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 07-12-2009, 02:11 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 07-12-2009, 03:19 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 07-12-2009, 03:52 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 08-12-2009, 02:31 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 09-12-2009, 08:21 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 09-12-2009, 09:22 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Margaret - 09-12-2009, 11:15 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Margaret - 13-12-2009, 12:32 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 09-12-2009, 12:25 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 09-12-2009, 03:19 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 11-12-2009, 12:15 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 12-12-2009, 12:15 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 12-12-2009, 12:44 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 12-12-2009, 12:30 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - hedgeypig - 18-12-2009, 12:04 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Snowball - 12-12-2009, 04:31 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 12-12-2009, 09:28 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 12-12-2009, 04:34 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Snowball - 13-12-2009, 04:27 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 13-12-2009, 04:38 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 14-12-2009, 11:22 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Snowball - 17-12-2009, 11:34 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 18-12-2009, 08:30 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 18-12-2009, 05:06 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 18-12-2009, 06:22 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 18-12-2009, 06:41 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 21-12-2009, 12:46 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Snowball - 23-12-2009, 01:51 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - grom_ko - 22-01-2010, 01:25 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - murarik - 01-02-2010, 07:31 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 01-02-2010, 05:57 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 20-11-2010, 07:03 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 21-12-2009, 04:23 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 22-12-2009, 03:08 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 22-12-2009, 03:10 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 22-12-2009, 04:14 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 22-12-2009, 04:24 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 22-12-2009, 10:00 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 22-12-2009, 05:27 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 23-12-2009, 11:25 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 23-12-2009, 11:58 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 23-12-2009, 12:39 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 23-12-2009, 12:41 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - grom_ko - 23-01-2010, 05:39 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - LucasNorthFan - 23-01-2010, 09:42 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 23-01-2010, 06:20 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 23-01-2010, 07:14 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 24-01-2010, 06:28 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 24-01-2010, 11:58 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Nietzsche - 02-02-2010, 06:12 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - lwhite53 - 24-01-2010, 07:46 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 25-01-2010, 06:10 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - carole9908 - 07-03-2010, 03:26 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 26-01-2010, 02:00 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 01-02-2010, 02:47 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 01-02-2010, 06:10 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - aquamarine - 01-02-2010, 09:06 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 01-02-2010, 10:09 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 01-02-2010, 10:15 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - aquamarine - 02-02-2010, 10:28 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 02-02-2010, 11:18 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Snowball - 08-03-2010, 09:31 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 09-03-2010, 02:19 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 09-03-2010, 02:44 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 09-03-2010, 03:59 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 09-03-2010, 04:09 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - JHyde - 09-03-2010, 04:11 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 09-03-2010, 05:25 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 09-03-2010, 04:15 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - kirmostar - 09-03-2010, 06:29 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - TygerBright - 09-03-2010, 06:52 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 20-11-2010, 02:25 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - BoHenley - 20-11-2010, 09:29 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Annie - 20-11-2010, 07:17 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - KitKat385 - 20-11-2010, 07:23 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Annie - 20-11-2010, 09:59 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 23-11-2010, 02:04 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Belle - 23-11-2010, 02:32 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 23-11-2010, 03:45 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - binkie - 23-11-2010, 10:11 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 23-11-2010, 10:18 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - binkie - 23-11-2010, 10:30 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 23-11-2010, 10:34 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Belle - 24-11-2010, 02:11 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 24-11-2010, 02:51 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 23-11-2010, 02:33 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 24-11-2010, 07:03 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - binkie - 05-12-2010, 10:52 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - A Cousin - 07-12-2010, 02:45 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - BravoNine - 07-12-2010, 02:54 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 07-12-2010, 11:16 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - binkie - 07-12-2010, 11:40 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - A Cousin - 07-12-2010, 03:05 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Belle - 07-12-2010, 12:56 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 06-12-2010, 01:32 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - binkie - 06-12-2010, 02:35 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - BravoNine - 06-12-2010, 02:43 AM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 06-12-2010, 12:45 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - HellsBells - 07-12-2010, 04:07 PM
RE: Lucas and his tattoos - binkie - 07-12-2010, 11:23 PM
RE: [spoilers] Lucas and his tattoos - Byatil - 05-01-2011 11:09 PM

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