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RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - Naivety - 25-10-2010 04:18 PM
Lucas's loyalty to Harry and MI-5 has never really been in question up to now, but what about his mental stability?
In series eight I would say that the writer's questioned his reliability a couple of times. When his Russian captor tried to manipulate him, Lucas wasn't entirely in control of himself or events; and again, even when Ros, Harry and Ruth were all telling Lucas that Sarah was part of Nightingale, he still had feelings for her. I seem to remember he carried on sleeping with her despite knowing that she had killed Walker.
I have never quite gelled with the Lucas character, but I know I would be just as upset if I thought that the writers were going to turn Harry.
I feel we have to have confidence in the Spooks writers. It will all make sense in the end.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - khandy - 25-10-2010 04:32 PM
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - NightOwl - 25-10-2010 05:37 PM
(25-10-2010 04:18 PM)Naivety Wrote: Lucas's loyalty to Harry and MI-5 has never really been in question up to now, but what about his mental stability?
In series eight I would say that the writer's questioned his reliability a couple of times. When his Russian captor tried to manipulate him, Lucas wasn't entirely in control of himself or events; and again, even when Ros, Harry and Ruth were all telling Lucas that Sarah was part of Nightingale, he still had feelings for her. I seem to remember he carried on sleeping with her despite knowing that she had killed Walker.
I have never quite gelled with the Lucas character, but I know I would be just as upset if I thought that the writers were going to turn Harry.
I feel we have to have confidence in the Spooks writers. It will all make sense in the end.
Many of the characters haven't always been in control of themselves or events: Tom, Zoe, Adam, Jo, and even Ros. Harry's need for revenge has resulted in two premeditated murders.
Lucas has had trouble keeping his emotions in check at times yet in both series 7 and 8 he always was able to regain his composure and ultimately retain his professionalism. If, in series 9, Lucas suddenly can't cope anymore than there needs to be a better reason than Maya for the story to work for me.
I actually like the idea of Lucas being conflicted about Harry and MI-5, of Lucas still trying to cope with freedom and perhaps disappointment with his post-Russia life. But I also think that the writers themselves closed the door on those stories by not exploring them last season. If they now try to say "Wait, Lucas is a emotional wreck who betrays everything he's been shown to care about because of a woman/something that happened 15 years ago." it retcons Lucas.
That said, I do remain cautiously optimistic that there's a twist to the story that will make it work.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BoHenley - 25-10-2010 07:50 PM
I enjoy watching flawed characters, and even though it's almost painful to watch, I'm enjoying watching Lucas become unhinged.
What I do need is a better REASON (as others have said). I'm hoping we get that SOON and/or a great twist.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BravoNine - 25-10-2010 08:29 PM
(25-10-2010 03:49 PM)Nitrus Wrote: Well of course if you only highlight the times he's shown some loyalty he comes off as very very loyal. You can't even put across a reasoned argument for his loyalty because you refuse to see both sides of the argument. Your view of Lucas is very clouded and you play him up to be this almost god-like figure when in truth he is just as flawed as everyone else.
I'm sure that's not what you're trying to sound like, but I just find this post to be rather condescending, as if Lucas fans have to "wake up" or something and see that your opinion is better. That's what I get by reading your post.
Many of us have already admitted that Lucas does have his own maverick streak and agenda, but he has shown to us enough times that his loyalty can be counted on when the going gets tough. And I don't see how it is wrong for us to highlight his moments of loyalty, how can we put forth our argument if we don't mention those moments. It seems that we are the not the only ones refusing to see both sides of the argument.
No one is putting him up on some kind of pedestal and say that he is god-like and is never ever evil and treacherous, all we said is that we want to see a GOOD REASON shown of WHY Lucas is doing what he does because for 2 series we have seen him risking his life for this team, and calling it home, for him to just suddenly throw it all away without a good explanation is something that we have a hard time accepting.
He is flawed, he is damaged, and that's why we love him, because underneath his tortured psyche, he still came through for Harry and MI5 when they needed him. Maybe our view is clouded, maybe we are biased, but so what? We ARE his fans, we love him, just as you have your favorite and things that you would have hard time accepting your favorite would ever do.
To us, Lucas isn't some perfect god-like creature, we can accept the storyline of him being evil, being a traitor, all we are asking for is the writers to give us a good reason and explain his actions. Is that so much to ask for?
And all we are asking for is for you to be considerate, it's easy to accept storylines when the character is not your favorite, but for us Lucas fans, he IS our favorite, we are emotionally invested so if we fear that we may not get an ending that makes sense to us, it's only natural, just as you would with your most favorite character. You seem intent on crushing our view of Lucas being loyal. All I can say is that if Ros can make a comeback after all her betrayal and be Harry's most trusted officer, then I see no reason why Lucas can't.
This is suppose to be a safe haven where we can vent our fears and frustrations and hope that somehow the Lucas we love can come out of this safe and sound. Right now I just feel like somehow the views of Lucas fans are considered ignorant or insignificant. It just doesn't feel like a discussion anymore, it feels like we are being told that we are silly and should change our views.
In the end, this discussion is kind of a moot point, Lucas fans are gonna keep on believing what we want, we're gonna keep on believing the goodness of Lucas until we see otherwise.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - deebab - 25-10-2010 09:17 PM
(25-10-2010 08:29 PM)BravoNine Wrote: In the end, this discussion is kind of a moot point, Lucas fans are gonna keep on believing what we want, we're gonna keep on believing the goodness of Lucas until we see otherwise.
Think we Lucas fans may have seen otherwise tonight. I have been trying to keep the faith but the minute the silly blonde mentioned the A word I knew she was doomed.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BravoNine - 25-10-2010 09:23 PM
(25-10-2010 09:17 PM)deebab Wrote:(25-10-2010 08:29 PM)BravoNine Wrote: In the end, this discussion is kind of a moot point, Lucas fans are gonna keep on believing what we want, we're gonna keep on believing the goodness of Lucas until we see otherwise.
Think we Lucas fans may have seen otherwise tonight. I have been trying to keep the faith but the minute the silly blonde mentioned the A word I knew she was doomed.
The "A word"?
Oh never mind, I get it. It's the whole Albany thing eh?
I can still keep my hope, I can see various scenarios on how this can end, and it can still be good for Lucas. I'm an optimist
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - WhiteSwan - 25-10-2010 10:33 PM
(25-10-2010 09:23 PM)BravoNine Wrote:(25-10-2010 09:17 PM)deebab Wrote:(25-10-2010 08:29 PM)BravoNine Wrote: In the end, this discussion is kind of a moot point, Lucas fans are gonna keep on believing what we want, we're gonna keep on believing the goodness of Lucas until we see otherwise.
Think we Lucas fans may have seen otherwise tonight. I have been trying to keep the faith but the minute the silly blonde mentioned the A word I knew she was doomed.
The "A word"?
Oh never mind, I get it. It's the whole Albany thing eh?
I can still keep my hope, I can see various scenarios on how this can end, and it can still be good for Lucas. I'm an optimist
Normally I'm an optimist, too, but after tonight's episode it is becoming increasingly hard. Quite frankly I'm not sure if I want to watch the last 2 episodes, because I've more or less given up the hope that the writers will give us an intelligent solution at the end. It may be that Spooks just died for me tonight.
Of course I would be more that happy to be wrong, but at the moment I'm simply desperate and sad and frustrated.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BravoNine - 25-10-2010 11:57 PM
(25-10-2010 10:33 PM)WhiteSwan Wrote:(25-10-2010 09:23 PM)BravoNine Wrote:(25-10-2010 09:17 PM)deebab Wrote:(25-10-2010 08:29 PM)BravoNine Wrote: In the end, this discussion is kind of a moot point, Lucas fans are gonna keep on believing what we want, we're gonna keep on believing the goodness of Lucas until we see otherwise.
Think we Lucas fans may have seen otherwise tonight. I have been trying to keep the faith but the minute the silly blonde mentioned the A word I knew she was doomed.
The "A word"?
Oh never mind, I get it. It's the whole Albany thing eh?
I can still keep my hope, I can see various scenarios on how this can end, and it can still be good for Lucas. I'm an optimist
Normally I'm an optimist, too, but after tonight's episode it is becoming increasingly hard. Quite frankly I'm not sure if I want to watch the last 2 episodes, because I've more or less given up the hope that the writers will give us an intelligent solution at the end. It may be that Spooks just died for me tonight.
Of course I would be more that happy to be wrong, but at the moment I'm simply desperate and sad and frustrated.
It is becoming increasingly hard, but this is the exact moment where we have to be strong. We have to hold onto our belief that Lucas will not let us down. We have to believe that he will come through for us and for the team in the end.
I have a feeling something fishy is going on, so I'm holding onto my gut feeling that something will fix this.
I've put my heart and soul on the line in Lucas, I can't turn back now.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - WhiteSwan - 26-10-2010 04:45 PM
(25-10-2010 11:57 PM)BravoNine Wrote: It is becoming increasingly hard, but this is the exact moment where we have to be strong. We have to hold onto our belief that Lucas will not let us down. We have to believe that he will come through for us and for the team in the end.
I have a feeling something fishy is going on, so I'm holding onto my gut feeling that something will fix this.
I've put my heart and soul on the line in Lucas, I can't turn back now.
Thanks so much BravoNine for your encouraging words!
You know for me it's absolutely clear that Lucas isn't evil, that he really is the honest and brave man we've come to know and with whom I've fallen in love with. I just don't have any confidence in the writers anymore and I have no intention of watching them destroy "our" Lucas completely. Of course I very much hope that you are right and if that should be the case, then I will watch the last two episodes and probably enjoy them. But if they continue with this horrible character assassination then I will completely ignore 9.7 und 9.8 and I will try to forget the whole series 9 as soon as possible.