(28-10-2010 04:16 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  Knowing the spoiler from next week, I still don't think what Lucas has to hide can explain why he would have chosen the dangerous and unlikely to succeed action path he opted for, or would have stayed with it for very long if he did. Even if I accept he was obsessed with being with Maya, I believe the character I have seen in the series 7 and 8 would have thought his best chance to be with Maya would have been to face Harry, for practical reasons, let alone moral ones. It has to wait until it is all over before i can give my reasons.

It has done what was intended though in creating massive interest and keeping people hooked so it's a good story for Spooks. What is turning a character sour compared to that, just a trifle. As someone said, all except Harry are expendable.

I think Ruth going bad might have made more sense though. They would not have had to invent something never heard of before and an unbelievable romance, (Lucas had already had two for heaven's sake!), to explain it. We all saw the way Ruth was sucked back into MI5; she could easily have had a festering grief, regret and resentment lead her to revenge of some sort to provide the series intrigue and shock. She could even have led Harry on in the process to really shock. I wonder what the discussions would be like had they gone that path.

(28-10-2010 06:27 PM)WhiteSwan Wrote:  I absolutely agree!
Now I've read the spoiler and I have to say that the story still doesn't work for me and that I still find it totally unbelievable - unless there is much more to it. Up to a certain point I could buy that theme of guilt and redemption and the story about someone who has done something terribly wrong and then regrets it and tries to make up for it. Ok, joining MI5 is a bit of an odd choice (I always thought they had at least some sort of vetting process, but obviously I was wrong) and I suspect we will never get an answer to the question what made him regret what he had done. But I would be willing to go along with that. I could even understand that someone like that would do anything to protect that secret. But that's where the credibility ends for me. Because why on earth doesn't Lucas do the obvious, which would be killing Vaughn? He's supposed to be intelligent, so he should know how dangerous it is to give in to blackmail. Why doesn't he hesitate to frame an innocent colleague and to let an innocent girl bleed to death if he could have solved the problem by getting rid of Vaughn, who I suspect is not innocent. No one so far could give me a good explanation for that. In fact no-one ever tried. There are some theories out there about why Vaughn has that power over Lucas and I could live with most of them. But my fear is that we will never get an answer, that the writers just wanted to tell us something really new and interesting and didn't bother to give us an explanation. I would be more than happy to be wrong on this one, but from all you hear or read it will just be a simple story about someone suddenly turning from good to evil and acting completely out of character. Because Lucas' behaviour for me is just that, it's completely out of character. And I'm not saying this only because I've seen how he behaved in series 7 and 8. When you listen to the commentary to 7.8 they say about him: "What I like about Lucas is the fact that Lucas seems to be driven by a moral fire. He has this kind of moral anger in his core. And this makes him totally different to the rest of the team and to previous leading men." And they go on saying how similar Lucas is to Harry in that respect. And now we are meant to believe that someone with that moral fire would ruin/kill innocent people without batting an eyelid? If they don't give us a very good reason for that and if they don't tell us why Vaughn has that influence over Lucas then I really would be very disappointed and very angry.

(29-10-2010 11:13 AM)BoHenley Wrote:  [Completely Shallow Comment Alert - to lighten this thread up a bit]

As this thread is about Lucas:

I just wish the black singlet and/or the tight blue t-shirt would make another come-back.

And what happened to the much-talked about love-scene (on the table) with Maya? Did I blink and miss it?

(29-10-2010 01:46 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  When I was thinking about Ruth at least having something concrete in her background to explain why she could run off the rails, I realised Lucas did too.

I would have had as much trouble believing my view of Lucas from S7 and 8 would be a traitor, but at least I would have known the writers had been raising the question in those series and if he had just gone bad and been a traitor, I could have accepted that that story at least had some credibility. In fact, Lucas had so much in his past life that we knew about that could have been used as a credible reason for his going rogue, even a festering revenge for being left in prison for 8 years, or some of the other possibilities that have been raised in discussions.

In addition to the Lucas story being hard to believe for me, his disgrace seems to be worse too than with other options. At least a traitor is motivated by ideology, mistaken though it may be, rather than self interest. What they have done with this Lucas story (things being as they seem at the moment, I hasten to add), is character assassination for mine.

(29-10-2010 01:46 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  At least a traitor is motivated by ideology, mistaken though it may be, rather than self interest.

(29-10-2010 08:54 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  

(29-10-2010 01:46 PM)theeyeshaveit Wrote:  At least a traitor is motivated by ideology, mistaken though it may be, rather than self interest.

When did this become true for all traitors? Are you suggesting that no traitor has ever been motivated by self-interest? I can think of a dozen episodes of Spooks which say otherwise.

As for those saying Lucas wouldn't risk everything to keep his past hidden, how exactly did you arrive at that conclusion?