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+--- Thread: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. (/thread-1214.html)
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BravoNine - 01-11-2010 12:48 AM
However way this ends up and whether if it will all ultimately make sense or not, can I just say that I am really loving to watch this inner struggle of the character of Lucas! For once, I am sucked in so deep into a character storyline that every darkness, every moment of struggle is so mesmerizing for me to watch, and as the character finds itself deep into this mess, I feel all the emotions along with him.
So bravo to the writers for messing with all our heads, and most of all, a big shoutout of bravo to Richard Armitage for bringing Lucas to life and making us all care. None of us would be having this big discussion if Richard hadn't made Lucas burrow deep into our hearts!!
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BoHenley - 01-11-2010 09:44 AM
I was really going to write: "I refuse to speculate anymore and I'll just sit back and watch the last 2 episodes play out."
But seriously folks, as I think we'll get a heap more answers in the next few hours, I wonder if Albany/Maya is a trigger from Lucas's days of torture? That might explain why he goes totally mental with those 2 "subjects" and the rest of the time he's "Lucas."
Just a thought (to drive myself mad).
(Quick Edit: I've reached 200 posts!)
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - Logsie - 01-11-2010 01:16 PM
There are many valid points being made here but I, personally, am finding Lucas a bit easier to understand now. What we have to remember is that Lucas is an artificial construct; as Vaughn said, he's not a real person, he was created by John in order for him to turn his back on his wicked past and make a fresh start unencumbered by baggage. I think the only way he was able to do this is to effectively shut down his emotions - he no longer hears music because it is too closely allied to memories. It also casts new light on his comment to Sarah that "I just haven't been able to feel anything for a long time"; Lucas's personal feelings are switched off most of the time. Yet he is still human, he craves human contact, and he needs the idea of "family" to anchor him so he doesn't lapse into psychosis - whether it be a literal family or "colleagues". It explains why he hung onto his memory of Elisabeta for so long and why he was blindsided when he discovered she had moved on and remarried. At that time he still wasn't sure if Harry had accepted him so he had no spiritual home. He told Harry that without MI5 he would never be home, just back in England. It also explains why he tends to jump in feet first when a love affair beckons - good God but that man is needy! However his affair with Sarah was contrived; he was going through the motions, trying to make himself care and it worked up to a point.
Now he is offered the chance of something real and tangible in Maya which he has convinced himself will make everything alright. He can make her fall in love with him all over again, gradually explain his long absence and the fact that he goes by a different name now whilst at the same time living his new controlled life within MI5. It was always a long shot but Lucas needs to believe it is possible. Vaughn threatens everything so there must be a very good reason why he can't just kill him. It is possible that killing him in cold blood purely for reasons of self-interest goes against everything that his Lucas persona stands for so he won't allow himself to do it. I know he let Danielle die but people have a tendency to rationalise their own behaviour when their back is against the wall. He convinced himself that he wasn't responsible for her wounds and that she was probably going to die anyway, so it was better for her to slip away before anyone else came on the scene and heard her ramblings. Murdering Vaughn would be an entirely different thing. He reached for his gun when Malcolm called him "John" but I can't imagine him actually pulling the trigger on one of his oldest friends either.
I am of the opinion that there is a more practical reason why he can't just get rid of Vaughn, though but I just can't figure out what it is. I rewatched all 6 episodes on the weekend looking for the "clues" which we have been told are there pointing to the traitor. I used FFWD through all the "story of the week" bits and studies al the character interactions but now I have to say I suspect EVERYBODY !
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - theeyeshaveit - 01-11-2010 01:23 PM
(01-11-2010 01:16 PM)Logsie Wrote: I am of the opinion that there is a more practical reason why he can't just get rid of Vaughn, though but I just can't figure out what it is. I rewatched all 6 episodes on the weekend looking for the "clues" which we have been told are there pointing to the traitor. I used FFWD through all the "story of the week" bits and studies al the character interactions but now I have to say I suspect EVERYBODY !
If you are a writer that is one way to make sure the clues are all there - lay them for all possibilities.
It also helps if you want a flexible ending because you don't know if there will be a next series to have a cliff hanger to, or whether you will need to tie it all up in this one; or if you don't know whether one of your actors will be around for the next series or not.
(01-11-2010 12:48 AM)BravoNine Wrote: However way this ends up and whether if it will all ultimately make sense or not, can I just say that I am really loving to watch this inner struggle of the character of Lucas! For once, I am sucked in so deep into a character storyline that every darkness, every moment of struggle is so mesmerizing for me to watch, and as the character finds itself deep into this mess, I feel all the emotions along with him.
So bravo to the writers for messing with all our heads, and most of all, a big shoutout of bravo to Richard Armitage for bringing Lucas to life and making us all care. None of us would be having this big discussion if Richard hadn't made Lucas burrow deep into our hearts!!
I was about to give you a huge shock and post this.
![[Image: 6788.gif]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d74/nsraosfan/smilies/6788.gif)
but then I realised, I still need some sort of sense from it all before I can say a full bravo to the writers.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - redlyn - 01-11-2010 04:49 PM
One other thing: Vaughan obviously knows him so well and how exactly to push his buttons. He says that he took on the aspect of a stroke because he knew that 'John's' dad has a series of strokes and that would gain his sympathy. Between that and the comment about them getting drunk together and him going on for hours about Maya, Vaughan has him twiddling on a string.
Oh Lucas!
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - Logsie - 01-11-2010 05:17 PM
(01-11-2010 04:49 PM)redlyn Wrote: One other thing: Vaughan obviously knows him so well and how exactly to push his buttons. He says that he took on the aspect of a stroke because he knew that 'John's' dad has a series of strokes and that would gain his sympathy. Between that and the comment about them getting drunk together and him going on for hours about Maya, Vaughan has him twiddling on a string.
Oh Lucas!
Absolutely, redlyn!
He obviously was a big part of his past. I'm not sure how much Vaughn knows about what happened to him in the intervening years, though. He knows Lucas works for Harry Pearce but he seems to think Lucas has had it really cushy which suggests he doesn't know about his spell in a Russian prison - or else he's pretending he doesn't know.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - watchstrap - 04-11-2010 09:48 PM
I think that I have finally worked out why I hate Lucas' Love Interests so much. No, it's not the lack of chemistry, but it's the WHINING!!!!!!!!!!! They have all had or got really whiney, annoying voices, even that Russian woman.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - theeyeshaveit - 05-11-2010 12:04 PM
These comments about Lucas from S7 ep8 on the dvd show how much, by making him an immoral person, they have changed the central core of the Lucas some of us thought we knew. We were not wrong thinking he was loyal and moral, nor were we the only ones it would seem.
What I like about Lucas the character which I don't think is common to most of our team so far is that Lucas seems to be driven by a moral fire. Lucas has this kind of moral anger in his core and it makes him totally very different to the rest of the team and previous leading men. This speech now that he gives, about the first woman to be killed by a car, he could deliver that speech and Harry could deliver that speech because it requires that moral anger to. It's really part of his armoury isn't it? As a character you really feel that speech is right in his heart, you could just become this, or you could be this.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - HellsBells - 05-11-2010 12:35 PM
I just think the writers thought it was a great storyline and went ahead with it, not realizing some of us actually remember what has happened in previous series. Lucas has always shown himself to be a good, moral and loyal member of MI5, up to series 9.
RE: [spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas. - BravoNine - 05-11-2010 02:01 PM
I really hope that there is a twist somewhere because this is still way too much for me to swallow, especially since Maya isn't worth a penny, I've seen a tree with more personality!
If there is no twist, as long as they keep Lucas alive OR they have him redeem himself to save the team, I can accept that too.
But to accept Lucas is full on Darth-Vader? Nope, not happening! Heck, even Darth Vader had his redemption! So should Lucas!
Anyways, here's my Tom/Lucas/Harry vid! Thought I post it here too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGe2JS5G1ZY