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+--- Thread: [spoilers] Ruth (/thread-474.html)
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Kirayuki - 13-11-2010 11:26 AM
Agreed. However i do think she is a bit of a hypocrite in some senses with Harry. They are really both as bad as each other in general so i think that counts.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - JHyde - 13-11-2010 03:19 PM
It's interesting that Harry makes that comment about neither of them being emotionally forthright. I actually think they really HAVE been this last season, painfully honest, in fact. In that respect, I think they made progress.
It's also because why they love each other is bound up in the spy game. Harry's instincts are as much why Ruth fell for him as his unattainable status and gruff mannerisms. And Ruth's brilliance and brains are inextricably tied to her compassion and plain speaking.
Having said that, I DID wince when Ruth was dressing him down about saving her. I think the 'It was my turn' line was horribly honest and probably best explains her disappointment. Had Albany been real, Ruth would have felt as much responsible as Harry. OK, maybe not as much, but pretty damn close.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - A Cousin - 13-11-2010 06:37 PM
(13-11-2010 07:16 AM)Silktie Wrote: So is Ruth a hypocrite?
A "No" vote here. A hypocrite is someone who's actions belie their stated beliefs. I think her stated beliefs and actions are completely in line - brutally so. She is just expecting Harry's actions to be in line with what she *thought* his beliefs were, e.g. regnum defende. I am not implying that he is a hypocrite, just that her expectations are being redefined by his actions in S9.
"Sometimes you have to give a man a chance to show you what (who?) he really is." is coming back to haunt her. I kinda feel like he has stepped down off the pedestal she had him on.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Naivety - 13-11-2010 10:57 PM
If you take series 9 in its own right, then she has been fairly constant through the whole season. She has expressed disappointment in Harry when he has shown weakness, even in situations when he is showing that his weakness is her. She has demonstrated concern for his welfare through the whole series, even though she didn't want it to be openly expressed as love. That even mirrors her behaviour from series 5.
When you compare her behaviour with series 8 however, there are definite areas when her behaviour is contradictory. In series 8 she was stroking his hand, then his arm and she asked Harry to go for a drink. This is in complete contrast to series 9. I wish they had carried on that side of the relationship.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Kirayuki - 13-11-2010 11:01 PM
It's strange how i really loved series 8 when it aired, however now that this series has been shown i have to say this one was much stronger. Ruth held her own so much more in this one (In my opinion) and it seemed like she had a definate role to play. Last series she was a little bit all over the place. Still love her though.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - JHyde - 14-11-2010 06:05 AM
Harry did flip around a bit this season though. Compared to season 8 Harry. Which would explain hat difference.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Silktie - 14-11-2010 07:18 AM
Also, I think it makes a difference in Ruth's mind whether the person in danger is a civilian or not. The MI5 officers are not civilians, and it is part of the job description to sacrifice your life to save others. But George and Nico were civilians, and innocents caught up in events.
She expects Harry to save the innocents, but she doesn't expect him to save the non-civilians at the cost of other lives, perhaps?
I'm with Naivety, though, in that I feel the Ruth of season 9 is inconsistent with the Ruth of season 8, and that annoys me. I feel we didn't get sufficient explanation for her sudden harder, dead-inside state of mind, which she didn't display in season 8. Even in 8.8 she was still the very compassionate Ruth she's always been, very concerned about Harry putting himself in danger by going to the hotel, and trying to comfort him on the roof. But a few days later, at Ros' funeral, she's suddenly changed from that to someone who believes she and Harry has forfeited any right to be happy? It doesn't gel for me.
Harry's inconsistency was better explained - the culmination of all he has suffered in the line of duty.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Tea Lady - 14-11-2010 02:18 PM
I agree that S8 Ruth was more like the old Ruth. I think we are stuck with the confident Ruth, which I think is a good and positive character development. I just hope we get to see some of her softer side again, particularly in one to one moments. We saw little bits, like when she tried to explain to Harry about touching his hand. She could have just not mentioned that incident again.
Will they make her Section Chief? I do wonder whether that will be allowed. Surely during Harry's investigation, his relationship with Ruth will come out. Would Ruth want to be Section Chief anyway? That's not necessarily what she is best at, managing people, running operations. She would also have to work a lot more with Harry. I'm not sure she would want that.
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Naivety - 14-11-2010 02:30 PM
In this series though, we saw quite a lot of her running the operations from the grid. We also got to see her running the board room briefings. Towers is also aware of her, with him using her as an advisor. So maybe she is the obvious choice for the final series. We may even see her uncovering parts of Harry's past that she is very unhappy with. Kudos are bound to dream up another series of angst for us. Look at Ashes to Ashes, Gene and Alex weren't brought together until the final episodes and then only for the blink of an eye!
RE: [spoilers] Ruth - Forever Secret - 14-11-2010 04:37 PM
(14-11-2010 02:30 PM)Naivety Wrote: In this series though, we saw quite a lot of her running the operations from the grid. We also got to see her running the board room briefings. Towers is also aware of her, with him using her as an advisor. So maybe she is the obvious choice for the final series. We may even see her uncovering parts of Harry's past that she is very unhappy with. Kudos are bound to dream up another series of angst for us. Look at Ashes to Ashes, Gene and Alex weren't brought together until the final episodes and then only for the blink of an eye!Thats true, I could imagine her finding bits and pieces of Harry's past that could cause her to question him and that would put a lot of pressure on poor Harry...there's bound to be things in his past he doesnt want even her to find
I agree too, S8 Ruth was more like the old Ruth she just changed slightly in S9, in a way its character development so its a good thing, but I too hope we see the softer side of Ruth, the less 'dead' side emerge again in S10 I miss that side of her
Ooooh don't mention that ending... after 3 years of tension all we got was a tiny moment, it was a brief encounter for Gene and Alex... ahhh!
I really don't want that kind of ending for Ruth and Harry
(14-11-2010 07:18 AM)Silktie Wrote: Also, I think it makes a difference in Ruth's mind whether the person in danger is a civilian or not. The MI5 officers are not civilians, and it is part of the job description to sacrifice your life to save others. But George and Nico were civilians, and innocents caught up in events.I think thats why she feels so guilty about everything that's happened, she feels its her responsibility to have given up her own life to protect George and Nico and she couldn't, and she's feels guilty that if Harry didn't love her they would still be alive, I don't realy think in S9 that Ruth still blames Harry for anything, all along she's blamed herself for happened, and in S8 the guilt hadn't really struck her yet, not really until 9.1 when Harry asks her to Marry him, then the guilt comes crashing back down, and its caused her to feel 'dead inside' ect
She expects Harry to save the innocents, but she doesn't expect him to save the non-civilians at the cost of other lives, perhaps?
I actually hope the whole George and Nico thing doesn't come up again in S10 though, it'll cause pain for Ruth, and I just want to see her move on