Series 9 Episode 4 discussion

[Katja]

(13-10-2010 09:23 PM)FATBOY Wrote:  Am sure Kai must be a Chinese spook, but this being so why did he not find/confess to knowing about the bugs in his flat which Beth found in minutes?

Is this significant or just another hole in the storyline?

A quick thought on Albany - it's an anagram of 'any lab'

I saw the comment about the 18th centaury warship, presumably HMS Albany, but this is not contemporary with the battle of Trafalgar.

That painting is so seemingly random, isn't it. I'm warry of reading too much into "Albany" as someone above mentioned about sugarhorse being really just a random codename with no meaning beyond that.

My current guess is Harry putting it in the file to remind J/L that "England expects that every man will do his duty" even when he it means denying his own feelings--but who knows (and even if that is right, would it mean a warning to L/J or encouragement to stay the course, or just another sign that I have no idea where this is going and it's maddening!)

Re Tarek's youth, chalk me up as another who finds it far more believible with his youth than had he been Malcom's age. Tech stuff moves so fast, even in real life "years of experience" isn't nearly as useful as the ability to keep an ear to the technological ground and be comfortable with change--not that older adults can't be, but growing up in that world is an advantage

[FATBOY]

Certainly maddening! - but might have another look at the picture

Am with you on Tariq and the techie stuff

[Naivety]

(13-10-2010 05:04 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  So I wonder if Harry tips Lucas off, Lucas goes downstairs and acts surprised to find the photo. Vaughn is stuck in the house somewhere unable to get out. Vaughn gets Maya to let him out through the front door. Lucas hears the front door go and grabs the knife thinking he is still in the house.

Just a thought anyway.

I really don't believe that Harry has any idea about Vaughn or Maya yet. He may know they are part of Lucas's past but not that they are back on the scene. But the theory about Maya and Vaughn being part of some scam to get at Lucas I can believe - I'm just not convinced by Maya. The lovey-dovey stuff is mainly coming from Lucas. I love the theory that Maya let Vaughn out through the front door, that noise was definitely not explained.

And there is surely no way Harry would sanction setting up an innocent member of staff in such a materialistic way.

[FATBOY]

Um ... if it is a message from Harry to Lucas, I hope Harry (Nelson) won't be fatally injured in the battle.

[GrendelKhan]

Isn't it the same ship that Lucas has tattooed on his arm?

[BravoNine]

Whatever dark side Lucas is showing or however way they are trying to write him as a bad guy and ruthless, I just can't fit that with the man whom for the last two series has shown to be loyal again and again, selfless, and kind.

Even in this very same episode we are seeing two very different sides of Lucas. We got a Lucas who is off on his own agenda, and didn't hesitate to frame another for his actions. But then we have another Lucas whom at the beginning of the episode put his own life on the line to be arrested by the Chinese just so the mission could be done, even though he knew that there is a chance that he may not get out, and not to mention he even showed slight protectiveness towards Ruth when they all ran out of the building with the Chinese scientist, he had his hand on her back as if guiding her.

It's just hard for me to believe that what I saw for the last two series of Lucas always coming through for MI5 and Harry, is simply just an act and that he would be a big evil traitor. I just can't see that. Not when it comes to someone who endured 8 years of torture for his country and still remained loyal, not someone who would put his own nightmares aside and risk his life to run to the very place where he was captured just because he was told to. I simply can't believe it.

There is more to this story than what we are seeing, and if anything, the Spooks writers have always been good at planting red herrings and making us believe one thing but throwing in twists that we never see coming.

From everything I have seen Lucas done, I just can't believe he would be a dark, cold, ruthless person who only cares about himself. Something is going on, and the writers sure aren't telling us.

Maybe I'm in denial, maybe I'm being too naive about Lucas's true nature, but in my eyes, I can never see Lucas as cold-blooded, so unless Lucas/RA has been fooling us all along, I just can't believe he would turn against Harry and MI5, my heart can never accept that.

So if that were to happen, that Lucas is revealed to be some evil bad guy who is ruthless and would kill or harm anyone to get what he wants, then I can only say it's character assassination. They will have successfully destroyed Lucas's character with something way worse than just some love-sick puppy-ness. It would have destroyed the best thing about Lucas, his loyalty to his people.

[FATBOY]

An interesting idea but I think the tattoo of the ship on Lucas's right arm has a lower freeboard than HMS Victory

[GrendelKhan]

(13-10-2010 10:49 PM)FATBOY Wrote:  An interesting idea but I think the tattoo of the ship on Lucas's right arm has a lower freeboard than HMS Victory

I just thought a Blake on his chest and a Turner on his arm.

I spend too much time looking at those tats.

[redCHOCHO]

The very fact that they are openly casting aspersions and making it seem as if Lucas is a traitor means that there will be a twist at the end. I was gobsmacked though that he set Agent Owens up.

I was totally gobsmacked too! It was like I was betrayed by a friend.

[Silktie]

(13-10-2010 06:05 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  

(13-10-2010 05:55 PM)Silktie Wrote:  And if it does turn out that he sold out that poor sod just to save his own ass and secure a rosy future with Maya, he'll do well to remember that karma is a bitch who'll sneak up and smack him in the mouth when he least expects it.

And in this case, it would seem, Karma -Thy Name is Ruth.

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!!!!! That dogged brilliant bitch.... Not only is she NOT only the exposition fairy, she is not there to simply develop Harry's character. Although I fear for her a bit with Lucas. He is very dark so far this series.

Aww, bless you for getting it.

A couple more observations:
- Loved the totally casual way Tariq did that surge thing that allowed Lucas to open the window for 1.8 seconds.
- Also loved the dumb act Lucas put on when the Chinese caught him in the embassy.
- The confuzzled looks everyone gives Ruth when she talks about who Amphithrite was cracks me up. Even Harry was 'Yeah I love her but most of the time I don't understand a word coming out of her mouth.'
- Lucas running off to Maya in the middle of the operation when they are all waiting for the Chinese to move the scientist is ludicrous. Even if he is putting on an act, that was totally irresponsible. What would have happened if he couldn't get back in time? He'd have left the newbies carrying the can in that stand-off.
- Harry's indignation at being lied to by new CIA guy was hilarious, cause yeah, Harry, you've NEVER lied to another intelligence service or a politician in your life...

My theory on Lucas at the moment, only taking into account the information available to us and discounting the speculation that this is all some very elaborate, very secret double-bluff that Harry is aware of is as follows:
I don't think at this point of him as a big evil traitor. What he's doing at the moment he's not doing because he wants to betray Harry and the rest. But I don't think he's thought through the implications of giving that file to Vaughn. My speculation is that Vaughn will use that act by Lucas to blackmail him into further bad deeds, and possibly that the information in that file may be used to betray the team/country in some way and Lucas set up as the fall guy.

But even if this is the case, it doesn't excuse Lucas for stealing that information and setting up that innocent guy in the first place for personal reasons, i.e. to get Vaughn off his back, keep his past secret and get another shot with Maya.