[spoilers] Harry and Ruth Strike Back

[Tea Lady]

I know Harry didn't have that many people to turn to but I don't think he had to tell Ruth about what was going on. Ruth clearly didn't quite understand the importance of the information she was telling Harry about the dead man arriving in the UK. Harry could have also asked her to check those bank accounts out without telling her why he was asking. Also Ruth really didnt need to be in the interrogation room with Christine. I wonder whether Harry was trying to replace Tom in some way by going to Ruth, as Harry believed Tom was lost one way or the other. Harry would need someone else on the Grid, going forward.

NB, like your new Avatar Silktie

[lwhite53]

I agree with Tea Lady -- Harry didn't seem to need a sounding board previously, but he turned to Ruth anyway. I think he was very worried, first about Tom himself and second, about what Tom was doing to the team. I also think H realized that he might be too close to the situation to see it clearly and so he sought a second opinion from Ruth, whose objective analytical abilities he had come to respect. Even though she was clearly partial to Tom personally, Ruth's intellectual and analytical skills were always impartial. Once Ruth switched allegiances from Tom to Harry, I think she earned H's loyalty forever.

[Silktie]

That's a very good point, lwhite. Perhaps Harry was concerned about his own objectivity, and the way he interrogated Christine and blamed her for Tom's demise is probably a good indication that his judgement was not entirely sound at that point.

I wonder whether this experience with Tom, and the role Harry believes his relationship with Christine played in his downfall, influenced Harry's own approach to love and relationships. Tom's story is clearly a cautionary tale of what can happen to a spy that allows his feelings to get the upper hand. If Tom hadn't been so intent on protecting Christine, he would have gone to Harry with the information Christine gave him much earlier and most of this sorry mess could have been avoided.

I'm sure this served as a cautionary tale to Harry and contributed to him waiting so long to do somethig about his feelings for Ruth. It is rather ironic, then, that Harry's own downfall at the hand of Mace is similarly engineered through Harry trying to protect Ruth. The outcome is only different this time because Ruth then sacrifices herself to save Harry.

[JHyde]

I'm not so sure that Tom served as a cautionary tale for Harry. I think he cared for Ruth at this point, but I don't think Tom was someone he thought about when he was trying to get it together with Ruth.c

The two stories really are so wildly different. Moreover, the characters at play are too.

[Aria]

Yeah, I agree JHyde that Tom's realtionship with Christine had little to do with Harry and his feelings towards Ruth. Other factors such as the age difference, Ruth working for him and his lack of successful relationships with other women (Jane and Juliet), I feel played a greater part in Harry not acknowledging his feelings for Ruth for so long.

[Silktie]

So it's just me who thinks Tom's situation may have influenced Harry? Okay then. I agree that other things had a much greater impact, but I still think it made Harry think very carefully before getting involved in anything with Ruth.

I absolutely love the scene in 3.1 where Ruth tells Harry about her spook taxis - it's one of my favourite Harry/Ruth scenes.

And I wonder whether Harry ever found out what lie Ruth told to get that note to him in the hospital?

[lwhite53]

(28-03-2010 03:56 PM)Silktie Wrote:  I absolutely love the scene in 3.1 where Ruth tells Harry about her spook taxis - it's one of my favourite Harry/Ruth scenes.

And I wonder whether Harry ever found out what lie Ruth told to get that note to him in the hospital?

I love the spook taxi scene, too -- the look that he gives her is priceless. And, to my knowledge, there is never any indication in the series that he finds out how she gets the note to him (although the fan fic writers have gone wild with that particular scenario).

I did notice in this ep that Ruth throws Harry a very overt look when he leaves the conference room (after Danny/Adam were discussing Tom shooting Harry). She's clearly worried about him.

[Tea Lady]

(28-03-2010 05:02 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  I did notice in this ep that Ruth throws Harry a very overt look when he leaves the conference room (after Danny/Adam were discussing Tom shooting Harry). She's clearly worried about him.

I didnt notice that "look" when I watched this episode today so I've just gone back and had another peak, and yes she does do an over the shoulder type look when Harry disappears. I think Harry is really suffering at that point and in a lot of pain.

I also agree with shazia.kasim. I think the whole "boss/employee" thing was part of Harry not telling Ruth about his feelings but I dont think Tom's situation had much to do with it. Harry already had previous relationships with people he worked with but as far as we know they were not with women below his rank. The age thing certainly played its part and the fear of losing Ruth forever if it didnt work out. Seeing her every day was keeping Harry going sometimes and there was a risk Ruth would leave if the relationship failed, understandably.

---

One new question. If we dont get any movement in their relationship in series 9, do you think the writers should just drop the whole H/R thing? What I mean is, can we all stand another series of the same looks, touches, gazes? I sometimes feel that its all very nice and cute but sometimes things need to move on or we could lose what H/R stood for and meant to us orignally (hope that makes sense.)

[Aria]

It makes absolute sense, Tea Lady. I have often wondered if NW hadn't been preganant and wanted to leave, whether the writers would have given us fans so much H/R in season 5? - Ruth is leaving so lets ratchet up the H/R tension in the safe knowledge that after 5.5 we can press the reset button.

Personally I hope that series 9 sees progress in their relationship, but I will be satisfied with the odd looks and touches.

[lwhite53]

I'm not sure they could just drop the whole H/R thing, at this point. H and R could have a serious argument/rift of some kind, but then, logically, R would leave Section D -- I guess she could become part of another section and be seen now and then, but to what effect? And given the discussion of H's continuing feelings for R in s8, the only way I can think of to end the relationship is for Ruth to leave again.