Spooks: 2002-2011




 
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Series 9 Episode 8 discussion
09-11-2010, 10:26 PM
Post: #160
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion
I find it interesting that the ''killer'' John, who was declared to be ''awake now'' by Vaughn last episode actually did not kill anybody in this episode. His whole planning seemed to be hinging on the fact that they now thought the worst of him, while actually it was all smoke and mirrors. The guy running away should not have been killed for running away. If they were going to bring Lucas/John in, surely the shot would not have been meant to kill? Ruth was merely drugged. The bomb was not real, only a decoy. And Harry did not get killed either.

In this episode all the killing seems to be done by MI5 cum suis (the guy that ran, Maya, and in the end, Lucas, by the fact that Maya got killed and by the mere fact that you could argue that Harry had betrayed him repeatedly, first by not getting him back from Russia in a decent amount of time, and later by never giving him the trust that he craved and needed. Not even this series; you felt that Harry held back his trust, even if he extended his hand and said: sure I trust you. He did not ring true. John/Lucas had nothing more to live for. (I am also wondering why Harry gives up Albany to save Ruth, but not to save John/Lucas, since he knows that it is a dud. Another betrayal, that John/Lucas realizes when they are on the phone right after the drop.) Harry is a mega manipulator.

I am also wondering about the flashbacks. You see them in this episode, but I can't really envision Lucas having had sweet dreams during the past series. What if they only now show how damaged he was, and if he had been battling this all along since Russia? I know I have read comments on earlier series on how strange it was that he was able to pick things up like that right after he got retrieved. That would have been a heck of a punishment of John. In the previous series you really never got a feel for what went on in Lucas head. Maybe seeing the picture of Maya reminded him of a time when he was whole, and he was just too tired to keep fighting those memories and flashbacks, and started to lose it. In a similar yet different way from Ruth he is dead inside. They are both damaged, and I think that that accounts for some of the chemistry in their scenes together. I think that in a way she comes closer to him during those scenes than anyone in the 3 series. But Ruth has someone who trusts her, and will go all the way for her, while Lucas has no one. That can make a difference. I was always touched by the loneliness that he exuded.

John was young and foolish, and open for manipulation. he did horrible things. Then he became Lucas, and I think it rings true that he tried to atone for the crimes that John had done. Seeing the picture of Maya opened Pandora’s box. But in the end I think he became Lucas again, simply because he did not plan to kill anyone, and wanted to outsmart MI5 (and boy, did he ever, and if Maya hadn’t been there he would have gotten away with it because he ran circles around them). And yes, after all the betrayals that John/Lucas felt that Harry has put him through, he tried to frame him for giving up Albany. In fact, in the eyes of John/Lucas Harry gives up Albany for Ruth, like he wanted to give up Albany for Maya, so how is that different? Harry knows it is a dud, but John/Lucas did not until the end.
So for me, this series ended with Lucas.
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Messages In This Thread
Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Silktie - 08-11-2010, 07:43 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 08-11-2010, 10:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:02 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 08-11-2010, 10:04 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 08-11-2010, 10:16 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - expat - 08-11-2010, 10:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - deebab - 08-11-2010, 10:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - expat - 08-11-2010, 10:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:13 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Angie - 08-11-2010, 10:14 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:16 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Aria - 08-11-2010, 10:12 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Aria - 08-11-2010, 10:24 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Angie - 08-11-2010, 10:12 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - quin - 08-11-2010, 11:44 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Angie - 08-11-2010, 10:36 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - FATBOY - 08-11-2010, 10:20 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - deebab - 08-11-2010, 10:25 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - HRFan - 08-11-2010, 10:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Aria - 08-11-2010, 10:38 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 08-11-2010, 10:40 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - mifiva - 08-11-2010, 10:56 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 08-11-2010, 10:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - redlyn - 08-11-2010, 11:42 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Akira - 08-11-2010, 11:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - quin - 08-11-2010, 11:36 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Deb p - 09-11-2010, 12:09 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 09-11-2010, 02:04 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 09-11-2010, 03:53 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 09-11-2010, 04:51 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Jhokur - 09-11-2010, 04:48 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 09-11-2010, 09:46 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 09-11-2010, 09:55 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Hunted - 09-11-2010, 11:39 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Elphie - 09-11-2010, 11:41 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 09-11-2010, 11:47 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - redlyn - 09-11-2010, 03:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - kieran - 09-11-2010, 12:26 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - kieran - 09-11-2010, 12:44 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - ausfan - 09-11-2010, 01:44 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 09-11-2010, 03:22 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - ausfan - 09-11-2010, 03:28 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - KoiGal - 09-11-2010, 04:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 09-11-2010, 05:32 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 09-11-2010, 05:50 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Lomoto - 09-11-2010, 08:28 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - elisabet - 09-11-2010 10:26 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Tosca - 09-11-2010, 10:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 09-11-2010, 11:52 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 10-11-2010, 01:29 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 10-11-2010, 07:55 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - dalia - 10-11-2010, 09:16 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - dalia - 10-11-2010, 01:18 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 10-11-2010, 12:58 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 10-11-2010, 02:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 10-11-2010, 08:50 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Akira - 10-11-2010, 09:40 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 11-11-2010, 06:15 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 11-11-2010, 12:12 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 11-11-2010, 02:47 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 11-11-2010, 03:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 12-11-2010, 04:06 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 12-11-2010, 05:18 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 11-11-2010, 03:48 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 12-11-2010, 03:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Katja - 12-11-2010, 10:08 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Maike - 12-11-2010, 06:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 13-11-2010, 08:00 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 13-11-2010, 09:56 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 13-11-2010, 05:33 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 14-11-2010, 01:06 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 13-11-2010, 06:00 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 14-11-2010, 01:46 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - pook - 16-11-2010, 01:30 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 29-11-2010, 10:43 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 29-11-2010, 11:36 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 29-11-2010, 10:58 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 30-11-2010, 01:04 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 30-11-2010, 02:55 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 01-12-2010, 08:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 30-11-2010, 11:13 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 01-12-2010, 12:09 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 01-12-2010, 12:31 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 01-12-2010, 11:33 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 01-12-2010, 04:45 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 01-12-2010, 11:07 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 12:54 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 01:05 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 01-12-2010, 11:30 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 02-12-2010, 03:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 02-12-2010, 07:49 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 07:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 02-12-2010, 08:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 08:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 07:37 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 10:21 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 10:34 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 12:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 03:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 04:41 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 03-12-2010, 11:07 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 03-12-2010, 04:49 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 05:53 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 03-12-2010, 06:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 03-12-2010, 07:21 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 07:51 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 03-12-2010, 10:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 03-12-2010, 10:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 03-12-2010, 10:55 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 10:54 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 04-12-2010, 11:14 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 10-12-2010, 08:14 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 11-12-2010, 01:46 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 14-12-2010, 10:25 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Annie - 15-12-2010, 11:04 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 15-12-2010, 11:06 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 05-01-2011, 02:40 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 06-01-2011, 09:47 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 07-01-2011, 07:35 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-01-2011, 11:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 07-01-2011, 11:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 08-01-2011, 04:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 07-03-2011, 05:44 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 07-03-2011, 11:59 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 07-03-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-03-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-03-2011, 03:45 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 08-03-2011, 08:27 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 08-03-2011, 08:42 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nia M - 09-03-2011, 10:40 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 10-03-2011, 11:15 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-04-2011, 12:32 PM

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