[spoilers] Lucas. Just Lucas.

[Belle]

(26-11-2010 11:03 PM)binkie Wrote:  Belle, I think perhaps I am older and more cynical than you . I do appreciate the point you are making, (I realise you are not suggesting that Lucas wishes he had a time machine!) and I wish I interpreted the character and his motives in the same way. But I don’t. I’m not sure I see any indication of a desire on Lucas’ part to feel as he felt. Certainly, he is confounded and distressed by his inability to identify and experience the full, subtle range of human emotions. We must assume he has been capable of this. Elisabeta as much as lays this out for him, and us, when she more or less accuses him of being unrecognisable (That little scene in Elisabeta’s kitchen could support a lengthy analysis of its own, I suspect. There is so much going on, so much of it unsaid - and none of it anything to do with the disastrous and objectionable misinterpretation of it undertaken by season 9). My understanding of the character from this point, though, is very much of someone who is impelled to move forward. Yes, he still fetishes Elisabeta: he strokes and kisses her hair, he holds her waist, he tells her how he has missed her. But I see these actions as indicators of the survivor iteration of Lucas’ psyche. Thinking of Elisabeta (not of England or MI5) has been one of Lucas’ survival rituals for eight years. It has kept him alive, kept his mind active, and provided him with a connection to the emotional world (rather than the professional or operative world) outside prison. It’s hard to let that go. This is not necessarily so much a sign of lingering affection for Elisabeta as it is a fulfilment of the human need to need: specifically, to need something perfect and unobtainable (God is an obvious example of this, but there are others).

I do not mean to suggest that Lucas never loved Elisabeta. I do not mean to suggest that he is exploiting her, or any remaining feelings she may have for him. Rather, I am suggesting that the world looks different to Lucas now. Things no longer mean what they meant. He no longer wants what he might once have wanted. What he wants is more than likely nothing familiar to him. He may not even be aware of what it is he does want. He has been a long time without wanting anything except to be somewhere other than where he was. Comfort is no longer necessarily to be found in those things (people, relationships) which might once have represented security. I think Lucas wants those things (people, relationships) to mean something. I think he wants to be saved by an ability to feel. I think the abject dismay and confusion and self-disgust he displays when he tells Sarah in 8.4 “I just haven’t been able to feel anything for a long time” underline the extent to which he is aware of the distance between what he has wanted and what he is capable of wanting now.

It is, I admit, a very small point of interpretation on which we differ: the difference between wanting something and wanting to want something. I hope you don’t think I’m being unreasonably obtuse in coming back to this. The question of trust, to which you also allude, is a much more deeply felt thing for Lucas, which can only have been exacerbated by his experience of prison. I suspect it is quite important to an appreciation of the character to separate this question from that of security, although there is plainly a link between the two concepts. You have made me think more about this as a distinct object of concern for Lucas and his position in the narrative of seasons 7/8. I will come back to this later, because it’s worth a proper assessment of its own. You have only yourself to blame!

Well, I'm 33 and I can be quite cynical, but I must admit that I can be very naïve too .

I think I get what you mean Binkie, you say Lucas is wanting to want. That the 8 years of imprisonment has left him hollow and deprived of an ability to wish for feelings, that he instead wishes he could want something more than the flatness he's undergoing now.
Is this a right interpretation?
I can appreciate your point of view, it certainly is more elequantly put than mine, I'm not very good with words.

There's one thing in your post I'm having a bit of 'problems' with.
You say that we must sepperate the issue of trust from the issue of security.
In my mind, however, I don't think that one can feel safe or secure when one isn't felt trusted. To me, those two go together without a doubt.
I'll explain: I see trust as the ability to be truely who you are with someone, no masks, no hidden agenda's, no fear to make mistakes becuase they will be forgiven.(I mean mistakes on human level, when you work for MI5 the stakes are too high in terms of human lives and safety of the world, to be granted 'mistakemaking'). When you can be yourself, when you are sure whomever you are trusted by will not stab you in the back, so to speak, I see that as a feeling of safety.
Maybe this is again too naïve of me.
So I'm awaiting your view on this point ( I will gladly blame myself ), maybe you can put this in a more clear light.

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(26-11-2010 11:03 PM)WhiteSwan Wrote:  Quite frankly, the only reason for me to watch S9 again would be to find more plotholes. And even then I would never want to torment myself by watching any scenes with JB. In episode 1 to 6 there were enough scenes with Lucas to enjoy - and the rest of the series is something I want to erase from my mind, because JB never existed and for me that whole storyline is too ridiculous to waste any more thoughts about it.

Over the weekend I will try to make a list of the plotholes. I'm just not sure where to post it, as this seems to be the wrong thread for it. Any ideas anybody?

That's a great idea! I await your list eagerly, thanks for that in advance, I can bring myself to watch S9 again, yet.

I guess you could start a new thread 'Plotholes' under 'Season 9' in MI5 operations.
Good luck!!!!