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Series 9 Episode 8 discussion
08-01-2011, 03:49 PM
Post: #402
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion
(07-01-2011 11:57 PM)binkie Wrote:  
(07-01-2011 11:27 PM)Byatil Wrote:  Yeah, it's funny how the plot would have made a lot more sense if Lucas had simply slipped into a state of insanity. He could still have betrayed the team and could still have committed suicide... he didn't have to be pretending to be someone else Tongue I suppose the problem with that plot is that it gives cause for the audience to feel sympathetic towards the character (and for the other characters to feel guilt/sympathy) which are obviously not the emotions the writers wanted to create.

I have genuinely found myself wondering on a couple of occasions if maybe the whole Lucas-is-John storyline was created purely in an effort to avoid having to - in effect - kill a kitten. Balancing the acknowledged suffering of the character against suffering caused by the character allowed his death to be presented as something other than the final blow in a life of seemingly unrelenting misery and ill-disguised despair. If he was only masquerading as a kitten all along, the writers can breathe a sigh of relief at divesting themselves of the responsibility for the grief of an audience which can now blame Lucas for his own destruction.

But if the writers didn't want the audience to feel sympathy for Lucas what was the point of the flashbacks in this episode? I think they're meant to indicate that Lucas has slipped into insanity and to serve as a mitigating factor for his behavior. Sort of a "Lucas has kidnapped and plans to kill Ruth, he's betraying his country, he's willing to give the Chinese a weapon to use in committing genocide, but he's not really to blame because he's not in control of himself." And the rooftop scene, too, is used to create sympathy for him what with his inability to kill Harry and his "I'm nothing." line.

The writers seem to want to have it both ways. They want us to be horrified by John Bateman, but still love Lucas. They want him to be a hero, a villain, and a victim but they don't give us any reasons for his choices so I, for one, am left not knowing what to make of any of it other than the writers made a big mismash of what could have been a great story.
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Messages In This Thread
Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Silktie - 08-11-2010, 07:43 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 08-11-2010, 10:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:02 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 08-11-2010, 10:04 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 08-11-2010, 10:16 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - expat - 08-11-2010, 10:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - deebab - 08-11-2010, 10:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - expat - 08-11-2010, 10:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:13 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Angie - 08-11-2010, 10:14 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - almh - 08-11-2010, 10:16 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Aria - 08-11-2010, 10:12 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Aria - 08-11-2010, 10:24 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Angie - 08-11-2010, 10:12 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - quin - 08-11-2010, 11:44 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Angie - 08-11-2010, 10:36 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - FATBOY - 08-11-2010, 10:20 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - deebab - 08-11-2010, 10:25 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - HRFan - 08-11-2010, 10:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Aria - 08-11-2010, 10:38 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 08-11-2010, 10:40 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - mifiva - 08-11-2010, 10:56 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 08-11-2010, 10:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - redlyn - 08-11-2010, 11:42 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Akira - 08-11-2010, 11:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - quin - 08-11-2010, 11:36 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Deb p - 09-11-2010, 12:09 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 09-11-2010, 02:04 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 09-11-2010, 03:53 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 09-11-2010, 04:51 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Jhokur - 09-11-2010, 04:48 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 09-11-2010, 09:46 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 09-11-2010, 09:55 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Hunted - 09-11-2010, 11:39 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Elphie - 09-11-2010, 11:41 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 09-11-2010, 11:47 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - redlyn - 09-11-2010, 03:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - kieran - 09-11-2010, 12:26 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - kieran - 09-11-2010, 12:44 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - ausfan - 09-11-2010, 01:44 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 09-11-2010, 03:22 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - ausfan - 09-11-2010, 03:28 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - KoiGal - 09-11-2010, 04:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 09-11-2010, 05:32 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 09-11-2010, 05:50 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Lomoto - 09-11-2010, 08:28 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Tosca - 09-11-2010, 10:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 09-11-2010, 11:52 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 10-11-2010, 01:29 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 10-11-2010, 07:55 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - dalia - 10-11-2010, 09:16 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - dalia - 10-11-2010, 01:18 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 10-11-2010, 12:58 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 10-11-2010, 02:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 10-11-2010, 08:50 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Akira - 10-11-2010, 09:40 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 11-11-2010, 06:15 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - tyme4t - 11-11-2010, 12:12 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 11-11-2010, 02:47 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - George - 11-11-2010, 03:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 12-11-2010, 04:06 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 12-11-2010, 05:18 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 11-11-2010, 03:48 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Logsie - 12-11-2010, 03:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Katja - 12-11-2010, 10:08 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Maike - 12-11-2010, 06:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Quill - 13-11-2010, 08:00 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 13-11-2010, 09:56 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 13-11-2010, 05:33 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 14-11-2010, 01:06 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 13-11-2010, 06:00 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 14-11-2010, 01:46 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - pook - 16-11-2010, 01:30 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 29-11-2010, 10:43 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 29-11-2010, 11:36 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 29-11-2010, 10:58 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 30-11-2010, 01:04 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 30-11-2010, 02:55 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 01-12-2010, 08:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 30-11-2010, 11:13 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 01-12-2010, 12:09 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 01-12-2010, 12:31 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 01-12-2010, 11:33 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 01-12-2010, 04:45 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 01-12-2010, 11:07 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 12:54 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 01:05 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 01-12-2010, 11:30 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 02-12-2010, 03:05 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 02-12-2010, 07:49 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 07:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 02-12-2010, 08:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 08:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 07:37 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 10:21 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 02-12-2010, 10:34 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 12:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 03:11 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 04:41 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 03-12-2010, 11:07 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 03-12-2010, 04:49 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 05:53 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 03-12-2010, 06:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 03-12-2010, 07:21 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 07:51 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nitrus - 03-12-2010, 10:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 03-12-2010, 10:17 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 03-12-2010, 10:55 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 03-12-2010, 10:54 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Belle - 04-12-2010, 11:14 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 10-12-2010, 08:14 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - harrbd - 11-12-2010, 01:46 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 12-12-2010, 06:01 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 14-12-2010, 10:25 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Annie - 15-12-2010, 11:04 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 15-12-2010, 11:06 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 05-01-2011, 02:40 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 06-01-2011, 09:47 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 07-01-2011, 07:35 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-01-2011, 11:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 07-01-2011, 11:57 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - NightOwl - 08-01-2011 03:49 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - binkie - 08-01-2011, 04:27 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 07-03-2011, 05:44 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 07-03-2011, 11:59 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 07-03-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-03-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-03-2011, 03:45 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 08-03-2011, 08:27 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - xRuthx - 08-03-2011, 08:42 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Nia M - 09-03-2011, 10:40 PM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - JHyde - 10-03-2011, 11:15 AM
RE: Series 9 Episode 8 discussion - Byatil - 07-04-2011, 12:32 PM

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