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[spoilers] Harry and Lucas
06-12-2010, 04:39 PM
Post: #104
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas
(06-12-2010 02:12 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  Well I think the writers destroyed the bond between Harry and Lucas without any explanation as to why these two seemed so close. In 9.7 (I think) Harry asked Ruth if he was protecting Lucas more than he was protecting her (or something like that), but I didn't see Harry protecting Lucas at all. Why didn't Harry do more to protect Lucas?


(06-12-2010 02:21 PM)BravoNine Wrote:  Harry didn't try hard enough, the tone in his voice was never sincere and true, he let Lucas down in Moscow, and he let Lucas down again.


I agree there was not much investigation or demonstration of the WHY of this relationship beyond the two obvious factors of mutual professional respect and the sudden weirdness of the abandoned/abandoning situation. However, I do think Lucas – in spite of his evident struggle to implement an emotional acceptance of what happened – had, probably before his release, reached a point of practical acceptance. He was a field operative in a potentially hostile environment, and he got caught. He had to know there was a risk of that. He had to know there would be endless politicking involved in the acknowledgement of his capture, and the (possible) arrangement of his release. He would also, as a senior officer, have had his share of difficult decisions. As soon as he was captured, he became one of those difficult decisions. Admittedly, he cannot have known it would take eight years to resolve, but he would have understood the bones of the problem all the same.

For Harry’s part, he had to function as an authority figure for a man whose perception of authority had more than likely undergone something of a reinvention. He also had to find sufficient confidence to provide leadership against a background of Lucas’ confusion and his own assumed betrayal of Lucas. Almost the most important element of this leadership, I suspect, would have been the uncompromising treatment of Lucas as A. N. Other officer. In exactly the same way as MI5 cannot cultivate sympathy for, or empathy with, assets, I suspect Harry knows it would be operationally foolhardy to look at Lucas as being anything other than one of several valuable officers. If Lucas is going to return to work, it has to be because he is capable of returning to work. Harry should not have to look after him.

(06-12-2010 02:36 PM)HellsBells Wrote:  The Harry/Lucas relationship had been alluded to in previous series. For example Ros (s7)stated 'Harry sweated blood to get (Lucas) back, he'd rather die than let anything happen to Lucas'. Even Sarah (S8) asked what is it between you and Harry. Again it points to the writers not taking on board what had been said in earlier series

^^ This, obviously, with a cherry on top Angry

That line of Ros’ has always made me somewhat uncomfortable. I don’t expect to be shown every detail of every form Harry fills in, or every meeting he sits in, but I would have liked some indication of effort beyond Harry saying to Adam in 7.1 that Lucas is a “prize” of unexpected value in the exchange for the Russian spy.

(06-12-2010 03:28 PM)A Cousin Wrote:  I would agree that the relationship between Harry and Lucas was not developed enough in prior series. This explains to me why Harry's reaction in the interrogation of 9.7 to Lucas telling him about his life as John felt a bit OTT to me.

Harry’s reaction did seem a little sanctimonious, didn’t it? A holier-than-thou reaction which the viewer cannot see as having been earned makes the character displaying that attitude seem rather less sympathetic than their righteous indignation might suggest they have a right to be. One of the consequences of keeping the relationship between Harry and Lucas within the confines of allusion, rather than showing-and-telling, was, unfortunately, that I also had a moment of serious irritation with Harry over the whole “Not you” thing. Where did that come from?
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Messages In This Thread
[spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 04-12-2009, 08:51 AM
RE: Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 04-12-2009, 03:03 PM
RE: Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 04-12-2009, 07:44 PM
RE: Harry and Lucas - Silktie - 05-12-2009, 01:26 PM
RE: Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 05-12-2009, 03:30 PM
RE: Harry and Lucas - Silktie - 06-12-2009, 12:24 PM
RE: Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 06-12-2009, 08:26 PM
RE: Harry and Lucas - HellsBells - 04-12-2009, 04:12 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 04-12-2009, 04:23 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - kirmostar - 04-12-2009, 05:02 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - almh - 04-12-2009, 05:03 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 04-12-2009, 07:49 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 05-12-2009, 04:24 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 05-12-2009, 04:32 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - almh - 05-12-2009, 05:28 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 05-12-2009, 06:04 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 16-12-2009, 11:57 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Beatriz - 17-12-2009, 09:34 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 17-12-2009, 11:16 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - almh - 17-12-2009, 11:18 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 17-12-2009, 11:21 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 17-12-2009, 11:27 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - age1021 - 17-12-2009, 02:14 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 17-12-2009, 06:12 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 28-02-2010, 06:49 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 28-02-2010, 06:50 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 28-02-2010, 07:26 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Nitrus - 28-02-2010, 07:44 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 28-02-2010, 08:16 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 01-03-2010, 01:04 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 01-03-2010, 02:48 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 01-03-2010, 03:50 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 01-03-2010, 03:54 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Silktie - 01-03-2010, 04:27 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 01-03-2010, 07:16 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 07-04-2010, 01:28 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Skully - 07-04-2010, 02:39 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 07-04-2010, 03:04 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 08-04-2010, 12:44 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Nitrus - 08-04-2010, 01:20 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 08-04-2010, 01:23 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 09-04-2010, 03:51 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Skully - 09-04-2010, 04:18 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Silktie - 09-04-2010, 05:33 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 09-04-2010, 10:27 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 09-04-2010, 02:55 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BoHenley - 12-06-2010, 11:56 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 12-06-2010, 11:59 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Aria - 13-06-2010, 10:20 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - ettubrute - 01-07-2010, 12:38 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 01-07-2010, 09:37 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 01-07-2010, 07:33 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 01-07-2010, 09:40 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 01-07-2010, 01:42 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 10-07-2010, 05:04 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 10-07-2010, 07:08 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Kazters - 10-07-2010, 10:12 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Nia M - 10-07-2010, 11:55 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 10-07-2010, 11:57 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 10-07-2010, 06:47 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Kazters - 10-07-2010, 03:04 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 10-07-2010, 06:56 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 10-07-2010, 07:26 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 10-07-2010, 07:27 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 10-07-2010, 07:37 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BoHenley - 09-09-2010, 10:39 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 10-09-2010, 08:42 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - JHyde - 09-09-2010, 11:02 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 09-09-2010, 01:21 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - lwhite53 - 09-09-2010, 01:45 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BoHenley - 09-09-2010, 08:52 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Beatriz - 09-09-2010, 03:06 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 06-10-2010, 02:31 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 09-10-2010, 12:12 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 09-10-2010, 01:48 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Naivety - 09-10-2010, 05:15 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Tea Lady - 09-10-2010, 06:26 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Naivety - 09-10-2010, 07:22 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 11-10-2010, 03:18 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 15-10-2010, 05:26 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 06-12-2010, 02:21 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 06-12-2010, 03:28 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Silktie - 06-12-2010, 04:21 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - binkie - 06-12-2010 04:39 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - Silktie - 06-12-2010, 06:42 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 06-12-2010, 11:40 PM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - A Cousin - 07-12-2010, 03:17 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 07-12-2010, 03:27 AM
RE: [spoilers] Harry and Lucas - BravoNine - 07-12-2010, 12:40 AM

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