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Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
18-08-2010, 12:15 PM
Post: #1
Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
Ros (sort of) joins the team (after fighting against them), Juliet gets hurt, we meet Nicholas Blake for the first time, Jo holds her own and Zaf fights dirty.

What did you all think?

I must admit I haven't re-watched these eps yet, but there are some brilliant lines on this episode that stay in my mind, even though it's been a while. The idealist in me loves the little monologue Rowan delivers to camera urging his dad to do the right thing - it's basically a succinct summary of why I think everyone who's eligible *should* vote (in those countries that allow it) and I'm not ashamed to say that those lines bring a lump to my throat every time.

I also love what we learn about Harry - he truly believes in the democratic process as being the best there is, there remains a touch of the idealist in him. I also love him quoting the Rupert Brooke poem and the shot of him walking out of the complex at the end is marvellous.

My favourite scene is the one with all of them facing off downstairs in that dungeon, it's a terrifically well written scene and the set up for these episodes is outstanding, one of my favourite synopses of the whole show. The conspiracy theorist in me loves it.

And Ros trumps everyone by producing that disc. She comes (kind of) good and I can see why Adam hires her.

As to why Juliet does the kind thing for Harry and tells him bluntly about Ruth, I honestly think she cares about Harry, whatever else happens later. I think she respects him and she's known him a long time and this is possibly the only altruistic thing she does on the show.

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18-08-2010, 04:42 PM (This post was last modified: 18-08-2010 04:52 PM by Silktie.)
Post: #2
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
These episodes are certainly a cautionary tale that we should all take our civil liberties and responsibilities seriously, and I love that. That speech Adam makes about what it takes to move the British population to take action is, sadly, true in most countries. I also love that the team this time does not use force to overcome the evildoers, but instead inspires the population to stand up to defend their rights. That's great stuff.

I loved Jo and Zaf in these episodes - they both make telling contributions to the success of the operation. Although I have to say that one of my favourite moments is Harry's reaction to the news that Jo had lost Rowan.

Other moments I liked:
- I too loved the face-off in the dungeon. For some reason it makes me think of those scenes in the Godfather when two opposing 'families' meet on neutral ground to discuss their differences. Maybe it's because the scene has the same feel of underlying tension, mistrust and treachery running through it.
- Loved the moment at the start when Harry is phoning Adam, with Ruth hovering over his shoulder. Heh, Ruth has Harry well-trained by now.
- There are many Harry moments I like - when the Police stops his car and he tells the policeman there's no such thing as a temporary detention order, and orders his driver to drive on; then when the policeman puts him in the patrol car he refuses to let the guy touch him to protect his head; love how he asks for his dead officer back when Collingwood says they're not barbarians, and when told he won't be going back to work, he asks for a bottle of Scotch; and loved his reaction to Malcolm calling him a 'pompous old fool', when everybody expects him to get angry, he just accepts it as he knows it stems from Malcolm's grief.
- Colin's death really touches me - I think it is one of the worst in the series so far for me, precisely because he's not a field agent. He hasn't chosen to be an action hero like Adam or Zaf has; he's just a techie. The horrible way of killing him by hanging, and his little speech about how he's weaker than them, but that he won't let them humiliate him, is really sad.

I have a huge problem with the way Ros is introduced into the team, which I've talked about at length in the thread on this topic, so I won't repeat it all again. She annoys the crap out of me in these episodes specifically for the following reasons:
- She knows from the start that her father and Collingwood's aims are to force the PM to introduce more draconian security laws. She also knows that Collingwood is sending the PM's son threats, and later helps him to get Rowan's location in order to get their hands on Rowan. So she is clearly okay with the tactic of threatening an innocent (Rowan) in order to put pressure on his father to do what they want.
- Then later, the fact that Collingwood and her father was willing to kill the HS is not enough to convince her that what they're doing is wrong; instead she merely tries to limit the damage by offering to be a channel of communication.
- She gets her hands on that disc showing that Collingwood etc planned that plane crash, yet when Adam brings her in and asks her to help them stop her father, she refuses. She only agrees to help them when they show her that Daddy dearest took bribes and cavorted with whores. So, in the end she is not moved to change sides because she realised that what they were doing was horrible and wrong, but because she found out her father was not a great man.
Yet, after all this, she becomes a member of the team? Gah.

The main thing for me is - the whole premise of this show is about loyalty to your country, and to do the right thing even at great personal cost. She does the right thing only under duress and for the wrong reasons, and I'm supposed to believe the rest of the team members have no problem with her becoming one of them? I don't buy it.

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19-08-2010, 02:19 AM
Post: #3
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
I'd forgotten how much I loved these eps. This is writer Ben Richards at his best -- just pure, unadulturated spooks; action-packed, tense and edgy, very slick, great characterization and a terrific threat-of-the-day scenario.

I loved that everyone had a part in the eps, and even Juliet was portrayed sympathetically (and this was before she was cut down by the flying car door). Colin's death was chilling and Malcolm and Adam's "smile" scene was absolutely heartbreaking. Harry/Juliet and Harry/Ruth scenes were brilliant and I simply loved Zaf, the action figure.

I have a couple of questions:
1) Why didn't Angela kill Harry?
2) Why didn't Juliet know who Collingwood was?

The only thing about these eps I have reservations about was the introduction of Jenny (the nanny) because
Spoiler: show
of what ultimately happens between she and Adam. This was a poor choice of character arc, imo.

BTW, there aren't any commentaries for eps until late in this series.

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"Betrayal is a cancer. Let it eat your soul, not mine."
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19-08-2010, 08:09 AM (This post was last modified: 19-08-2010 08:12 AM by JHyde.)
Post: #4
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
Oh, how could I forget to talk about Colin? His death is so tragic, mostly because is there anything more senseless then being killed by someone who is meant to be on your side? Even though I never liked the character much, his last stand is actually very brave and I think he retains a semblance of dignity even as they hang him and he pleads.

I also ADORE the scene at Adam's when Malcolm goes off at Harry. Malcolm gets pissed so rarely that it totally breaks me up when he blasts his boss, you can really feel his pain. And RPJ faces off with him so perfectly, there's some seriously good acting in that scene. If you watch his face as Malcolm turns the tables and asks about Fiona....just fantastic stuff.
Series season8 Spoiler: show
I also find a real parallel between how Malcolm reacts here and then again in 8.1 when they're trying to work out whether Harry is still alive.

I also forgot to mention how I love Harry's chivalry with the lady from the Civil Liberties group, and how he chastises Collingwood and his awful henchman. This is chivalry in the best sense - he's still caring for someone before himself and that is Harry to his core.

I've said elsewhere that we get the greatest insight into Harry's own self in season 5 and these episodes really start that.

Given that Australians are going to the polls this weekend, I have been thinking about these episodes a lot, mostly for the staunch defence of democracy that these episodes have at their core. Democracy is flawed, but honest to God, we are so lucky, those of us who live in its shadow.

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20-08-2010, 09:12 AM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2010 09:13 AM by Tea Lady.)
Post: #5
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
(19-08-2010 02:19 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:  I have a couple of questions:
1) Why didn't Angela kill Harry?
2) Why didn't Juliet know who Collingwood was?

It was never explained why Angela didn't kill Harry. Surely she was aiming for Harry and not Adam when she opened fire? I just think it is one of those "Spooks" end of season questions we are not supposed to ask. Smile

As for why Juliet did not know who Collingwood was, I can only assume that Juliet's role is liasing with various departments in the Home Office and not the Foreign Office, but I am not sure.

I do love these two episodes. I just love the way they are filmed and the soundwork and wish someone has taken note for series 9. Harry is brilliant throughout the two episodes. Peter's acting really is second to none here.

Even though I have seen these episodes several times I still find three scenes difficult to watch. The first is the bus scene where the chap is coughing blood. The second is the Colin scene which I find distressing. He is such an innocent and they kill him in such a torturous way. The third is where Malcolm loses it. I think this scene is far worse than anything in series 8. Malcolm is devastated and takes it out on his old friend Harry. Harry owes Malcolm that much, that he doesn't react.

The other interesting thing about that scene in Adam's flat is the way Harry is sitting. If you didn't look too close, you would think he was resting his hand on Ruth's shoulder. His body language is clearly saying to Ruth, I want to be with you.

I do like Juliet in this episode. She is almost humanised by the writers. She shows great affection and admiration for Harry throughout. As to why she points Harry in Ruth's direction in the end, I can only assume that with her paralysis, any thoughts she still harvested that she may hook up with Harry again, were firmly laid to rest. I honestly believe she still loved him but wanted him to be happy. He was the one she screamed for, when the car exploded.

I liked Jo in this episode. She really came into her own and I loved Zaf fighting with Jenson.

There were also some great lines in this episode such as "you can drop the death stare," "hide the stationery," "he fights dirty."

As for Ros, I try not to think about her introduction too much for all the holes there, as Silktie has pointed out. Ros always seems to change loyalties with the wind. She is not stupid and must have known what the end game was here. This is though the first time she helps to save Harry's life. I did note the death stare she gave Ruth though, when Ruth called her father a traitor. A nail in Ruth's coffin perhaps.

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20-08-2010, 05:56 PM
Post: #6
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
With Ros's introduction I guess that's how spy shows are supposed to be with all the double crossing and mixed loyalties and I really do think it's great Big Grin
Series series8 Spoiler: show
makes it seem a little unbelievable Ros made section chief after not only this but her s6 betrayal. She must have some serious charm hahaa

I was so sad at Colin's death and Malcolm's reaction. Poor Colin bless him I think it is one of the most poignant deaths Spooks has to offer.
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23-08-2010, 03:58 PM
Post: #7
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
Two other things I really like in these episodes:
- I like how Adam is smart enough to know what Ros is up to with the whole seduction routine, and plays her at her own game.
- I love that sequence where the protest march footage is interspersed with Malcolm and Ruth frantically trying to persuade the Police to stand down. I thought the editing of that bit was fantastic.

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23-08-2010, 06:02 PM
Post: #8
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
i agree, but he is also prepared to sleep with her wether that is because he needs the company or he is prepared to do anything to beat her at her own game! that said i like the perfume thing i wonder if ros changed it

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24-08-2010, 07:25 AM
Post: #9
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
I do think he was affected by it (the perfume) legitimately and it just made him angrier because of it.

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24-08-2010, 08:07 AM
Post: #10
RE: Episodes 1 & 2 [re-watch]
I always thought Adam was lying about the perfume. He was just trying to find a way through Ros' defences.

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