[spoilers] Recurring Themes in Season 8

[JHyde]

You need not use spoiler tags in this thread unless specifically referring to confirmed spoilers for ensuing episodes of Spooks. Everything up to and including the most recently aired episode on *BBC3* is considered fair game.


Because the forum is so new, this is the first time we've been able to comment on a series as it's airing and anticipating stories as they come. I thought it would be interesting to discuss the ongoing issues and themes of season 8. I think the feel of this season is a little different, in that there has been a season trend away from the nationalist cause, but rather Britain as part of a global community. The show has dealt with this before, but not on such a grand scale over a complete season.

Social inequality has also cropped up a lot this season. Think the MI5 asset in the crack house in 8.4, the motivation behind the terrorists of 8.3 (that made them somewhat sympathetic, despite their despicable methods) and in 8.2, the discussion as to who might really suffer from the threatened power cuts.

Spoiler: show

This looks set to continue in episode 6, given the subject matter.

What's really been foremost in this season is the focus on international justice and human rights. It was briefly touched upon in 8.1, as the uranium at stake was smuggled originally to justify the Iraq war. But from 8.2 onwards, it has been at the top of every episode. Urazov planned a genocide in his own country, and BiBi was part of the movement against his brutality. 8.2 and 8.5 also questioned the morality of sacrificing one life to save hundreds of thousands (there have been different answers provided), and how far the Service should prostitute itself in serving a higher purpose. (The show has not consistently examined these issues since series 3.) Even the bad guys Nightingale are a global organization, and not in the way Yalta was in season 6. We're still not even clear what their aims are.

So what do you think? Are there other issues at play that I have left out? How do you think these issues will be discussed in future episodes and resolved as we head into the last 3 episodes of the season? And how rich is this as subject matter in season 8 - are you buying it?

[JHyde]

Really? Nobody thinks anything about this? Or is it all too dense and reading too much like one of my essays?

[Beatriz]

LOL I'm very lazy and not very good at commenting on but I'll have a go

You're right that human rights is a good part in series 8, and the lesser of two evils (or catch-22, wasn't it?) and displayed from different perspectives and how different people see these moral issues. It was good the contrast between 8.1 and 8.2 (for example), in 8.1 Ruth couldn't help thinking of herself and her family and Harry was the one who was objective, whereas in 8.2 Harry thought he was acting well, being objective but he wasn't thinking properly.

In 8.3 the motives of the terrorist were legitimate, but not always the end justifies the means. There's a lot of injustice in the world but you can't do what they did, you can't "play that game". Perhaps the terrorist thought it was the more effective way to do it, but there are lines you can't cross.

I know nothing about future episodes as I haven't read any summary it will be interesting knowing this threat on "social order as we know it", and what is nightingale all about. I think kudos is preparing a huge end of season, at least hope so

I like this season so far !

[Silktie]

I try not to over-analyse entertainment, because basically I just want it to entertain me. But Beatrice's comment made me think. Is what the "terrorists" in 8.3 did really that different from what our heroes have done on more than one occasion - i.e. be prepared to sacrifice a few for what they perceive as the greater good? Had they stuck to what was originally given as their aim, namely to hold these very rich and powerful men accountable for some atrocious things done by their corporations, is this not also what our heroes try to do on a regular basis? Granted, by the end of the episode we're into decidedly murky waters when it becomes evident that the leader was also using it to bring about a regime change in Russia, but the rest of his gang had more altruistic intentions.

[JHyde]

It was actually that episode that got me thinking about this. The difference is, I think, that our heroes have never executed people on camera in the name of justice.

They've circumvented the democratic process, placed many an illegal phone tap or bug, tortured the innocent along with the guilty and brought about the deaths of some who really didn't make dodgey decisions to put themselves in harm's way. But they never staged a showtrial with jury by SMS.

Having said that, I really did feel a twinge of sympathy at various points in 8.3 for those bandits. I also wondered why they were French - was it to make them *less* sympathetic?!

Peter Firth said in The Daily Record some weeks back that

Spoiler: show

Nightingale is an organization dedicated to eradicating terrorism. That the ends of this group might be noble but the means by which they achieve them certainly isn't. He also hoped to hell the events of this season never come to pass.

I think these last 3 episodes will get much nastier than what we've seen so far.

---

OK, I went hunting and found the exact quote:

Spoiler: show

"I know they've written about things in the past which have gone on to happen but I hope this series' storyline never really happens. It's too horrifying although it's utterly plausible.

"It's about an organisation dedicated to eradicating terrorism from the first world.

"It's a good plan and it would work but it's not what any right thinking person would want to see as a solution."

[lwhite53]

(03-12-2009 01:50 AM)JHyde Wrote:  OK, I went hunting and found the exact quote:

Spoiler: show

"I know they've written about things in the past which have gone on to happen but I hope this series' storyline never really happens. It's too horrifying although it's utterly plausible.

"It's about an organisation dedicated to eradicating terrorism from the first world.

"It's a good plan and it would work but it's not what any right thinking person would want to see as a solution."

I think the crux of PF's discussion might hinge on that middle sentence. Reads like

Spoiler: show

Nightingale don't much care what happens in the "third world" (define that term as you will), just want all those "others" to stay the hell away from us and stay out of our countries.

I can understand why that might be a disturbing idea to most sane poeple.

[JHyde]

After episode 6, I'm even more convinced of these themes. Once again, it was about issues of inequality and economic injustice. I'm in no way justifying what Baisley did. But this is the slavery of the new century. It's the ugly side of capitalism that has only been acknowledged this last year.

I think once again Spooks has positioned itself brilliantly on the cusp of the public consciousness. Now it's not only people in countries like the fictional Tazbekstan who suffer, it's the beloved middle class of advanced, developed countries where the bridge between rich and poor is only growing. These two themes are linked, and not only on the show.

[lwhite53]

(05-12-2009 09:13 AM)JHyde Wrote:  After episode 6, I'm even more convinced of these themes. Once again, it was about issues of inequality and economic injustice. I'm in no way justifying what Baisley did. But this is the slavery of the new century. It's the ugly side of capitalism that has only been acknowledged this last year.

I think once again Spooks has positioned itself brilliantly on the cusp of the public consciousness. Now it's not only people in countries like the fictional Tazbekstan who suffer, it's the beloved middle class of advanced, developed countries where the bridge between rich and poor is only growing. These two themes are linked, and not only on the show.

Are you seeing economic terrorism (as opposed to religious or ideological terrorism) as the "new" threat being exposed in S8?

[JHyde]

So many of the problems in homegrown terrorism, especially in the UK, find their origins in poverty. It in no way excuses what they do, I can't emphasize that enough. But you only have to look at the major threats of our time to see they find their roots in misguided interventions (both at home and abroad) and post-colonial planning. And I'm not even getting into politics here (I'm being very careful not to) - this is history, the record of many different types of historians over the last hundred years, that tells us that.

To bring it back from my own rhetoric, this is definitely something Harry has acknowledged at various points over the show's run. And it's definitely the feeling of the times.

This difference in how they see the world and Britain is also one of the major conflicts between MI5 and Six, I suspect.

[almh]

I think that money really is the root of all evil, whether it's poverty or wealth, because with money comes greed and jealously and sometimes desperation to survive. I think that this season is being centred more on money with the depression still ongoing in Britain (yes, I know the other countries have got out of it... well, we have Spooks, so who really cares about the depression?) I think Spooks aims to be topical, so the themes for each series are always what the writers predict will be affecting Britain when it is shown on tv. I think the themes so far shown have been socio-economic (long word I learn in geography, I quite like it actually ) - what happens when the fuel runs out? What could happen if we don't get out of the recession?

I can't think of any more off hand, I'll have to rewatch all the episodes and get back to you