[spoilers] Harry and Lucas

[JHyde]

(Spooks doesn't really do flashbacks or montages, in my experience.)

[LucasNorthFan]

There have been times when Lucas has mentioned his time in jail and if Harry was near we would get a close up, his face shows an emotion that at first I thought was sympathy imagining what Lucas might have gone through.
When it was suggested it could be guilt because he was involved, I accepted it as another possibility for Harry's expression, after all that's all we got unless I've missed something. Of course it could be guilt for having tried for sometime to take him out of there and thinking it wasn't fast or soon enough... I can't really tell, so an episode explaining Lucas' story and Harry's involvement (or not) would be great, also I'd like them to somewhat explain if Connie was telling the truth in 7.8, when I watch that episode I have the feeling she wasn't or at least it was just part true.
Maybe a plot were something from that time comes to menace London/England security now as to give information of what happened from the different point of views as to start putting the pieces together.

LNF

[lwhite53]

(28-02-2010 08:16 PM)JHyde Wrote:  (Spooks doesn't really do flashbacks or montages, in my experience.)

They've both been used, but sparingly. To use them together would signal, I think, a special ep.

[HellsBells]

(28-02-2010 06:49 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  I think it would make the Harry/Lucas relationship far more interesting if he interjects someone else into the section chief role, which pushes the Harry/Lucas relationship further apart, but more likely to bring it to a head eventually.

Yes that sounds like an excellent storyline. I think there needs to be a catalyst that actually prompts Harry and Lucas to really talk to each other. I feel that they are just being civil to each other. I know JHyde does not agree but I still think Harry had more to do with Lucas' capture, and Connine's confession was fake.
In season 7 Lucas says that Kachimov implied that Harry did not seem too keen to get Lucas back. I think Lucas was fishing, to see if he could get a response from Harry, but Harry ignores the accusation.

[JHyde]

I totally agree that Connie's confession was fake. I always interpreted that as being Connie saying it wasn't me, but rather someone LIKE me, doing it for my own ends or for a different agenda. If that makes sense. I loved how Gemma spoke that line, repeated, almost Shakespearian in its delivery and double meaning. She honestly had some of the highest quality writing on the show with her storylines and their consistency.

The only way I can see Harry being indirectly involved is if it was an either/or scenario in which if he had pulled Lucas out, another mission would have been jeopardised. Or that he had to make a decision between Lucas and someone else - only one of them could be saved, Rachel or Harvey Dent style. (Watch the Dark Knight if you have no idea what I'm talking about.) It may turn out that this is something like what happened, although I think the former is more likely.

[Tea Lady]

Sorry, so let me get this right, you guys think that Harry did sell Lucas out (whatever the reason) and that Connie was lying in her confession or her confession did not mean what we think it meant? Good grief, I will have to watch 7.8 again. I guess I always had it at the back of my mind, why tell Lucas now? Why give Lucas and Harry a gift? Connie was willing to sell Harry out the day before and hissed at him? Why would she then tell Lucas something which would help make Harry's life easier?Sorry, I think I am just writing what is going through my head at the moment.

I dont think we have ever seen Harry give Lucas an explanation and when Lucas starts fishing, Harry just does his poker face so not to give anything away.

[JHyde]

I'm not convinced Harry sold him out, Tea Lady. I'm merely trying to explain that if indeed there is more to this dynamic than we've been led to believe thus far, that this could be why.

As to Connie, remember that she said that at the same point as she was basically trying for redemption. "What's lost can sometimes be found again, Lucas." More to the practical point, as I understand it Connie wasn't working for the Service when Lucas was in Russia. But that's more my impression, I just had the feeling she'd been out of the game a little longer than 8 years.

[Silktie]

I think you guys are giving the writers too much credit for long term planning. I don't think Connie was lying and I don't think Harry sold Lucas out. I'm pretty sure that if that was what the writers were aiming for, we would have seen the pay-off in season 8. I base these views on what Ros says to Lucas at some stage in season 7, when he is about to put himself in danger, and she tells him not to do anything stupid as Harry had moved heaven and earth to get Lucas back and wouldn't want to see him come to any harm.

That said, there is definitely some unfinished business between those two, as I think Harry feels very guilty that it took him eight years to get Lucas back. But I got the impression from Lucas in season 8 that he was satisfied with what Connie said and didn't suspect Harry any more.

[lwhite53]

I agree, Silktie -- thanks for putting my thoughts into words!

[silverbirch]

Hi just wanted to come into the thread as ive read some really interesting points i hadn't thought of before, i agree Harry and Lucas have things still to discuss and theres probably more to what happened in the past between them, it would make the next series more interesting if these were explored a bit more.

I never thought that Connie's admission to Lucas was fake before but it's an interesting thought and could be something explored further, but i wonder if the writers will bother or just move on. If they are wanting to get the viewing figures up i suppose they won't bother as continuing stories confuses new viewers. I would love them to carry on the subject and for it to really get into an espionage/traitor episode where everyone was mistrusting everyone and being disloyal. I found series 7 absolutely brilliant and will be one of my favorites.