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**Kazters** · 10-07-2010, 02:54 PM

i think she feels guilty about it and she sort of does apologise as much as ros ever will (i.e. i dont do appologies, but if you did, 4 hrs cinderalla before you turn into a pumpkin. is as close as ruthg was going to get)

the guy who trained ros who turns up in s8 did he train her when she joined? or was this from before? i fond it odd how much he thinks he knows her and she him

**Silktie** · 10-07-2010, 04:08 PM

(10-07-2010 11:32 AM)Nia M Wrote: Thanks JHyde.

I think she's totally justified in being angry there though - I certainly would be. And I don't think Harry can necessarily blame her for wanting revenge (although I don't believe the way she went about it was right at all) - he after all does have a go at the person who said Zoe would just get 'a slapped wrist'...

The difference here though is that it is not Harry's fault that her father tried to organise a coup, and it is not Harry's fault that her father got 20 years for that. The only thing she has a right to be angry at Harry for is the fact that he kept that information from her until the operation was over. She is very much shooting the messenger here. And her little tirade about him having no right to judge her as his own life is a mess, is in my opinion totally out of order, as Harry in fact was not judging her at all AND giving her a second chance by letting her join his team.

**Kazters** · 10-07-2010, 04:17 PM

your right of course but what I think annoyed her to and would annoy me was he told adam well before he told her! she is angry becsuse he seemed to give her the impresson it would be only a short sentense even though harry was told they were going to make an example out of him he didnt pass that on to ros.

**Silktie** · 10-07-2010, 05:09 PM

Seeing how she reacted, though, maybe Harry was fully justified in keeping it from her until the operation was over. I don't think she would have been able to continue with the operation if he'd told her about her father in the middle of it. But I agree, she had a right to be angry about that. However, the spiteful way in which she reacted really rubs me the wrong way. In the end, she destroyed Ruth's whole life in her attempt to spite Harry. Weigh this against the fact that he had in fact given her her life back at the same time, and it looks really mean spirited from her side. And she only compounds it by being too proud to even apologise to Ruth.

**Kazters** · 10-07-2010, 05:20 PM

i dont think its to proud i think she really is one of those people who believed (not in this case though) that she is right most of the time!

I also think that it was strange how well she and ruth got in laterly! she in one sense did ruin ruths life but on the other hand she gave her what she wasnt going to get in london! (well not with the person she wanted to).

it was spitefull to go after ruth but also even i thought she was right at one point in spite of myself! but by helping ruth the only person angry at her was adam or at least he was only one who showed it. i think she regretted letting her emotions get the better of her.

**Silktie** · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2010 05:36 PM by Silktie.)

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Tongue

I really do think she knew damn well she'd made a mistake - you could see it in her face when Mace went after Ruth on the Grid. But still, she refused to apologise for it. She did the same thing in 5.3, when she allowed the girlfriend to go to the flat, and she was later killed. But when Adam asked her how the girlfriend knew where the flat was, she flat-out lied about knowing that the girl went there, and later pressurised poor Jo to also lie for her about it. Everyone makes mistakes, I have no problem with that. But you can at least take responsibility for it, and be a big enough person to apologise to those your mistakes have hurt. I'm not prepared to give Ros a pass on this.

**Kazters** · 10-07-2010, 05:38 PM

i forgot about the girl! i remember thinking at that point she wasnt a nice charactor but she grew on me! but you are of course right if you make a mistake you should appologise for it!

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 10-07-2010 06:16 PM by JHyde.)

I completely agree that Ros was in the wrong about dobbing Ruth into Mace. I do, however, think that Mace would have got to Ruth anyway, Ros just offered him the easiest possible route. (Part of the reason Ros was bothered was because she knew exactly that.)

This is probably why Harry, Ruth and Adam all seemed to move on, at least on camera or as scripted.

I also think that one of the reasons I'm not crazy about season 5 Ros is that she doesn't accept personal responsibility at all.

Series season7 Spoiler: show

**Silktie** · 11-07-2010, 05:31 AM

(10-07-2010 06:14 PM)JHyde Wrote: I completely agree that Ros was in the wrong about dobbing Ruth into Mace. I do, however, think that Mace would have got to Ruth anyway, Ros just offered him the easiest possible route. (Part of the reason Ros was bothered was because she knew exactly that.)

This is probably why Harry, Ruth and Adam all seemed to move on, at least on camera or as scripted.

That's fair enough, but it isn't just about what would or would not have happened to Ruth anyway, is it? It's about the deeper issue of trust. You cannot introduce a character the way they have Ros, and then have her do what she did with Ruth, and expect me to believe that Harry and Adam would not doubt her trustworthiness or loyalty to the team in any way. How do they know she won't do it again? What happens next time she's pissed at Harry? To not show them have doubts about her commitment to the team is unrealistic. If you want to portray her as a fully integrated and trusted member of the team for the rest of the season, you have to earn it, and I don't think they have.

Added to this, the Harry we know does not meekly accept one of his officers going behind his back like that and not have something to say about it. It's out of character, and that annoys me.

**JHyde** · (This post was last modified: 11-07-2010 05:44 AM by JHyde.)

No, I completely agree, it doesn't negate Ros' moral responsibilities at all. I was speaking as a) a writer and b) from the perspective of Harry and Adam who had to keep working with her,

Series season8 Spoiler: show

They had to find a way to get on with things, I suppose. I am surprised it didn't make them doubt her more often.

Make no mistake about it, whenever I re-watch season 5, especially the first half of season 5, I shake my fist as Ros without regret.

I do think she took something from it. If you watch how she deals with Malcolm in 5.6/5.7, I do think there's a change in tone for her. Mind you, 5.6/5.7 were also mainly there for Ros to really become one of the team - something she had hitherto avoided.