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Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
07-02-2010, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2010 09:02 PM by Tea Lady.)
Post: #1
Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
Any thoughts? Please post.
Not sure the Russians were portrayed in a good light in this episode. Then again I am not sure the British government was either. What a scowl that Amanda woman had on her. I though Harry was King of the pouts? He has nothing on Amanda Roke (was it Roke?)

Again I liked this episode but not as much as 2.3.

-Sam was back to being Tea Lady obviously taking the place of Helen.
-Cant quite see Ruth dating a banker? Maybe it was the "swinging....."
-Is there anything Ruth can not do? Trading in stocks and shares...she is great.
-Classic moment with the shredding. Malcolm is a strange cookie. One of the all time classic Harry moments with the "Leonardo of the dustbins" comment. Great writing and delivery.
-Cant quite believe Ruth used the work computers to communicate with Amanda even in code. Surely she would know they are monitored. Perhaps she did it so she would be found out?
-Poor Zoe. So naive to do what she did. If the swiss chap was single why didnt he just take her to his own house? Why a hotel room?

The only thing I didnt get was why Harry allowed Danny to take that Russian woman Maxine back to his real flat. In 8.4
Spoiler: show
Harry went mad at Lucas for taking his torturer mate back to his flat.

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08-02-2010, 11:59 AM
Post: #2
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
I loved Tom in this episode. First when he let Ruth have a second chance and then when he was comforting Zoe.
I felt so sorry for Zoe, it must have been mortifying knowing her colleagues had seen that!

I liked Ruth's storyline here. It was good the way she was the last person you'd expect to be a mole... and her naiviety at doing what she did because she was so eager to work for MI5. I did think it suspicious she used the grid computers, but I guess she was just following orders..

I don't think Harry was happy about them using Danny's flat but I don't think they had the choice because they didn't have the time or budget to find a bankers 'shag pad' elsewhere lol
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08-02-2010, 02:30 PM
Post: #3
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
(07-02-2010 08:38 PM)Tea Lady Wrote:  The only thing I didnt get was why Harry allowed Danny to take that Russian woman Maxine back to his real flat. In 8.4
Spoiler: show
Harry went mad at Lucas for taking his torturer mate back to his flat.


That is a very interesting point Tea lady, and I really can't think of a good explanation. In the earlier series MI5's budget is mention a fair bit and they constantly seem to be aware of costs, which was Harry's reason for using Danny's flat. But still there must have been a security issue.

I liked Tom arguing with Amanda Roke in Harry's office, that she wasn't a member of the government and she wasn't elected, therefore she couldn't tell them what to do. Very much the time of the 'spin doctors'.

Lucas 8.4: It's all about trust, isn't Harry ?.
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08-02-2010, 05:49 PM
Post: #4
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
I really liked this episode, and Dickie Bowman. As Harry said, he did a very brave thing for his country and paid for it in the end. I can see why he would be a friend of Harry's, they have the same sense of duty. I found the storyline very interesting, and plausible. The Russian mob is a very relevant issue since the collapse of the USSR, so it's good to see it represented in Spooks. I also liked that the government wasn't planning to give the money back to the US, but instead used it to improve the NHS.

Didn't like Amanda Roke, her attitude left a lot to be desired, and it was good to see Tom put her in her place.

Poor Ruth, it was pretty naive of her to believe that it was okay since the information was going to another government department. She really must have been desperate to join MI5 to agree to spy on them. After she was caught out, she was so eager to prove herself, and it was nice of Tom to take her with him to give the information to Harry.

I absolutely love Malcolm's reaction when Harry calls him their Leonardo of the dustbins - he looks so proud! It's one of my favourite Malcolm moments.

I also liked the last scene with Harry and Dickie, it's a nice touch that they got back his Russian icon for him, and to see Harry's respect for this man and what he was prepared to risk for the country.

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08-02-2010, 05:54 PM
Post: #5
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
It's one of the better episodes in season 2.

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09-02-2010, 01:42 AM (This post was last modified: 09-02-2010 01:44 AM by lwhite53.)
Post: #6
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
I liked the story line for the ep -- dodgy goings on in the banking industry (and it's certainly still topical today). According to Brenton, the story was based on real events.

Danny got his first big story line here -- got to be the glam trader with the posh clothes, the strip clubs, and the flashy pad (well almost). And poor Zoe got to be the cleaner. LOL.

Amanda Roke, what a bitch -- "All you have to do is do as you're told." Definitely not the way to endear her to MI5. Loved when Tom told her off.

Some classic lines in this ep:
-Malcolm: "Ah, Zoe. You have delivered me shredding. Delicious." He's definitely in heaven.
-Malcolm: "No one sees us. We go through walls."
-Harry: "Our Leonardo of the dustbins."
-Bowman: "Nature intended me to sit behind a desk balancing books, not go double-crossing Russian gangsters."
-Tom: "What about the money?"

Zoe again gets caught up in trying to have a "normal" life outside of MI5, and regrets it. She's really torn between a job she loves and the yearning for a satisfying personal life and that schism really haunts her.

The scene between Tom and Ruth after she's caught leaking info to Roke is terrific. R's been snared in the political intrigue among various govt. departments and in her naivete she believes what she's done is ok. She is so clueless that it's almost comical. But Tom isn't pulling any punches: "You betrayed us." And even though she scared that she's on a direct train back to GCHQ, she finds it all "rather exciting." How could you not give her another chance? She's so passionate about her work and so endearing in her naivete. She also discovers the Russian connection and that Maxi is a fraud.

I also loved the scenes between Bowman and Harry. H has respect for few people but Bowman is clearly one of them. H's treatment of B after he has a stroke is positively emotional -- he's tender with him and even strokes his face! And the scene at the end, giving B the icon back, is truly poignant. A side of H we haven't seen, to date.

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"Betrayal is a cancer. Let it eat your soul, not mine."
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09-02-2010, 03:56 AM
Post: #7
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
He's the Cowardly Lion character - Bowman did it all even though he clealry wasn't cut out for it and was desperately afraid and ultimately he died doing it (we find out that he died from Harry's Diary).

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09-02-2010, 05:00 AM
Post: #8
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
I think in the interchange between Ruth and Tom, she showed she's got the backbone to be honest about herself, both in strengths and weaknesses. I think Tom might have sensed it as well, and respected it, though he also had Zoe to deal with.

I learned something interesting in this episode specifically - I watched these originally via Netflix streaming. I put the DVD's into the queue for the rewatch, and noted the scene at the gentleman's club was clipped from the streaming version :o

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09-02-2010, 06:06 AM
Post: #9
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
(09-02-2010 01:42 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:  Danny got his first big story line here -- got to be the glam trader with the posh clothes, the strip clubs, and the flashy pad (well almost). And poor Zoe got to be the cleaner. LOL.

The scene between Tom and Ruth after she's caught leaking info to Roke is terrific. R's been snared in the political intrigue among various govt. departments and in her naivete she believes what she's done is ok. She is so clueless that it's almost comical. But Tom isn't pulling any punches: "You betrayed us." And even though she scared that she's on a direct train back to GCHQ, she finds it all "rather exciting." How could you not give her another chance? She's so passionate about her work and so endearing in her naivete. She also discovers the Russian connection and that Maxi is a fraud.

I also loved the scenes between Bowman and Harry. H has respect for few people but Bowman is clearly one of them. H's treatment of B after he has a stroke is positively emotional -- he's tender with him and even strokes his face! And the scene at the end, giving B the icon back, is truly poignant. A side of H we haven't seen, to date.

Yeah, poor Zoe really got the short end of the stick in this episode. There is also a deleted scene where Tom tells Harry that Zoe would have to be booked into a hotel, and Harry says "Can't she sleep on your floor or something?" Bwah! Harry's Scrooge-like concerns over the budget in the first few seasons was really funny.

The thing with Ruth's betrayal, of course, is that if the government worked like it should with departments sharing information, she would never have been in that position. But even in a democracy each department seems to guard its own little molehill jealously.

Good observations about what we learn about Harry in this ep, lwhite. This ep, combined with 1.6 and the info about his friend Bill that died in Ireland, makes me think that Harry is one of those guys that maybe have few close friends, but that he cherishes them and is fiercely loyal to them. It's also interesting to note that Harry is quite comfortable in the company of these bankers, perhaps hinting at a somewhat privileged background for Harry.

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09-02-2010, 04:20 PM
Post: #10
RE: Episode 4 Discussion [rewatch]
I loved the moment with Malcolm when Tom said 'just pop through the wall and fetch a cup of tea' or something like that.. so funny!

Also on the DVDs was that Ruth's voice or am I imagining things again Tongue If so that was a nice touch although I usuallly hate the start up on the DVDs
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