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Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
12-10-2010, 10:46 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2010 10:49 PM by tyme4t.)
Post: #51
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
Well I enjoyed that episode! I liked it much more that 9.3 and I think it's because it featured a different enemy that we haven't seen before on [spooks]. Sorry but the Russian/FSB thing has been done a lot especially since Lucas has joined. So I "welcome" a new foe... And now in retrospect 9.3 was a way to illustrate that Lucas is not with the Russians.

Yes there were some "holes" - told you that it's not a good idea for an MI5 officer to have such open windows in his/her home! And yah....****** should have come up when Owen was typing in his passcode...puleaze!

However, I felt overall this episode showed everyone pulling together and acting as a team! Ruth in the field - luv it! Dmitri & Tariq diffusing the bomb! Beth telling Kai he really wasn't that important - cold & calculated and yet she does care for him & what happens to him! Lucas (when he wasn't being a bad guy) and Dmitri rapelling down the building! Harry being Harry - in control and meetings with HS - love the hazelnut line and Harry's reaction.

OK - Lucas/John Maya & Vaghan...completely baffled...and the last shot with the Chinese and their file on Lucas/John - whoa!

Bring on 9.5!

PS - did a tea splurt when Harry did the "cow bell" line! Big Grin

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12-10-2010, 10:54 PM
Post: #52
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
This was the weakest of the four s9 eps thus far, imo -- too much "been there, done that" for my liking. And 2nd ep in a row where the spooks team has been played by a foreign intelligence service (leading the bad guys directly to the prize). Are the writers making some kind of comment about the service's competence? or just a bad placement of similar back-to-back eps?

In the absence of a plausible and engrossing plot (c'mon writers, something totally new would be nice), I spent most of the ep concentrating on the characters.

Harry/HS is developing into a really good sub plot -- their evident dislike for one another is palpable. I laughed out loud at the look H gave the HS at the "I don't think they put the hazelnut syrup in" line -- H's disgust said it all!

Interesting comment the HS had about Britain and it's current place in the world: "This little island's intellectual property may be the last meaningful global currency we have left. We have to hang onto it, whatever it takes." An enlightening home-grown perspective.

I loved Ruth in her undercover assignment (great codename, "Gazelle) -- she was witty ("You try remembering the Mandarin for 'quark'"), focused, quick thinking in getting into the secure area (even H was impressed by her ad libbing) and cool under pressure. And the "aha" moment when she cottons onto something going on with Lucas was really well done -- the hint of a niggling brain blip that translated into a very small facial gesture, just enough for us to register the visual.

I'm VERY happy that the H/R relationship seems to have regained some sort of equilibrium. They interacted well professionally and even when they verged on the personal ("Sorry about your lip." "Don't be.") they kept it civil. Truly loved H's "If you don't start knocking, I'll have to have you fitted with a cowbell." It was playful banter, just like old times.

Finally got to see some action from Dimitri who's been pretty quiet since ep 1. His "Sounds like you just told me to melt the bomb" was a great little comic moment.

I think Beth stole the ep however -- loved her determination, her self-doubt and her obvious need to prove to everyone that she really does belong in the service. She's developing really nice relationships with Harry, Lucas and Dimitri but especially with Ruth. Their little scene together was a self-contained gem:
R: "In this job, every day you make it home in one piece, that's a little victory."
B: "Bloody hell, I can see why they didn't let you write the prospectus."
In two lines, you know exactly where these two characters stand and what's happening to them emotionally.

The best line in the ep, imo, went to Kai: "I have been a good traitor." That's both the funniest and the saddest thing I've heard anyone say in a long time!

And Lucas -- what can you say about what's happening with him? His storyline has become so muddled I can only think we're being led on a merry chase by the writers. I am seriously disturbed that he would feed another agent to the wolves to get what he needed and that he would, AGAIN, get romantically involved in about 5 minutes but . . . I think it's a feint. What he's doing is so out of character for him (setting up another agent, rushing to see Maya at the hospital) that I really do think it's all a cover for a larger op, one that Harry is aware of but Ruth is not. What that op may be, I haven't the faintest idea yet but I'd bet it has to do with "Albany." And, btw, even though Lucas downloaded the "Albany" file, we don't know that that was what he actually handed over to Vaughan.

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12-10-2010, 10:58 PM
Post: #53
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
(12-10-2010 10:13 PM)Fidget Wrote:  [quote='almh' pid='33416' dateline='1286918618']
enough already, if I see him in another 'love scene' I will scream......come on how about a little love for Harry & RuthHeart

Love scene? Is that what you Brits call the little snog (a cute little term) here and there? I'm still waiting for the much ballyhooed kitchen table scene....and yes, I love Lucas and believe with all my heart his is the heart of a patriot.

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12-10-2010, 11:20 PM
Post: #54
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
(12-10-2010 04:51 PM)Nitrus Wrote:  
(12-10-2010 10:18 AM)khananel Wrote:  I'm new here and probably amongst the 'older' group of the Spooks viewership. This is in the nature of a very critical review.

I feel that Spooks seems to be heading downhill fast. They replaced Malcolm with Tariq, nice bright kid, but too young to be so 'experienced' with the 'systems' he operates. Even a genius has to have experience... Its like he can take over any IT system in the UK, or the world, at will, and manipulate it instantly and effortlessly. Just too implausible... Or maybe he's a very youthful 35-45...

They got rid of the older lady who turned out to be a traitor. Shame, they didn't replace her with someone from a similar age/experience group, just for balance and plausibility.

The only 'oldies' are Harry and Ruth, both welcome, but both not quite acting as more experienced members of the service. Except for the scenes with Harry and the HS that are very well done.

Now we have Dimitri and Beth who can't be more than mid-20s. Now, did they go through screening? Were they trained up? I only ask this because in Episode 4 everyone seems to act like rank amateurs with the Chinese, and Harry admits as much. 'We were played...' I mean this is the nation's security service not the WI! Everyone now seems too young, too inexperienced, too lovesick and too confused. No wonder the enemies are walking all over them! I yearn for the days of Adam Carter and Roz. And the Lucas thing is so confused. Have they screened him? Is he a double or more agent? Is he effective, psychopathic or merely confused? should he be in the service at all?

And Tariq and his impossibly genius talent for taking over technology at the blink of an eye can't make up for these shortcomings. I mean, that Chinese bomb, so, instead of the whole experience of the Bomb squad and a BDO, we have the new Dimitry, and yes Tariq again doing it all by themselves... Implausiblity gives way to plain disbelief. Its becoming a bit daft or even ridiculous for me.

And they got the new Beth to handle the Chinese guy. In reality (what's that got to do with a good story...?) she would have gone under the wing of a Chinese specialist officer to learn the ropes. I mean the Chinese are know for their inscrutability. You don't put a newbie to handle them, certainly not on her own. Harry should have been dragged over the coals for allowing that. Not a, from Ruth ('oh I forgot the Chinese for...') 'your instincts were wrong this time, better luck next time'. It doesn't make even a little sense any more. And last episode they had the FSB guy in the heart of the Secret Service; why not just make Putin PM of the UKand we'll make the UK a province of the RF like Kaliningrad.

The previous episode, episode 3 was a shambles, so many 'holes' you could drive a coach and horses through. I complained to the BBC about that. In this one they were all merely rank amateurs.

If they carry on like this I may stop watching. A (once great) show going downhill fast. Maybe they are aiming for a younger (perhaps less demanding, finicky, grumpy?) age set. And I may be shot down in flames for my comments here. So be it.

Thank you.

I could not disagree with you more on almost every point you made. It is totally plausible that Tariq can do all of the things he does, it's even probable that he can do it *better* than Malcolm could.

You seem to have a real problem with the age of the cast, for reasons I can't comprehend. As for your comments on the training of Beth & Dimitri, it's pretty clear from the little history we know of them that they are basically trained already. Dimitri would've been trained in counter-intelligence while training for the SBS and Beth has been a private security contractor for years, giving her the experience she needs.

Tariq could be easily any age from 25 to 35 I am 50 but people who I worked for though I was mid 30's

When you have physical access to the system its a lot easier to break in. And I have had to do this (leagaly) for work (I used to work for BT). We where asked to recover some systems to which the passwords had been lost and the third party who developed the system had had a major falling out with the end customer. And I was going to take over and run the system for them (online booking for one of the major cinema chains)

A bit of research and a chat with our reformed phreak and after getting the ok from 2 levels of management and the customer I popped over to there DC stuck in a floppy and grabbed what I needed and set some of our then powerful dual processor machines cracking it.

Took less than 48 hours to get a break (they used a week key) - I had considered setting up the engineering centers sun systems as a distributed cracking farm but that wasn't required.

Something like a EVGA Classified SR2 with the top end xeons on water cooling could probably do it in an afternoon – let alone if you loaded it up with 7 top of the line graphics cards and run the crackers on them.

Though to be honest some of the computer treknobabble isn’t that good any one know if they want a script consultant :-)

BTW nothing I mentioned here is secret I just worked in a standard engineering centre not the secret squirrels. And if I had time and budget I could have got hold of the cool gear which they only sell to approved organisations and could have cracked the systems directly.

And things have moved on the Stuxnet virus only needs to be on a memory stick inserted in the right machine for example.
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12-10-2010, 11:25 PM
Post: #55
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
We're all very impressed.

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13-10-2010, 12:29 AM
Post: #56
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
(12-10-2010 10:54 PM)lwhite53 Wrote:  And Lucas -- what can you say about what's happening with him? His storyline has become so muddled I can only think we're being led on a merry chase by the writers. I am seriously disturbed that he would feed another agent to the wolves to get what he needed and that he would, AGAIN, get romantically involved in about 5 minutes but . . . I think it's a feint. What he's doing is so out of character for him (setting up another agent, rushing to see Maya at the hospital) that I really do think it's all a cover for a larger op, one that Harry is aware of but Ruth is not. What that op may be, I haven't the faintest idea yet but I'd bet it has to do with "Albany." And, btw, even though Lucas downloaded the "Albany" file, we don't know that that was what he actually handed over to Vaughan.

I've just watched the episode and when it comes to Lucas I couldn't agree more with you or others stating that he's like a different person, that he's forgotten all about his moral values and that he's turned from a good, loyal, trustworthy agent into a lovesick puppy, ready to lie, to cheat and to betray.
I was cringing with embarassment when I had to watch that scene in the hospital. And then of course the idea to betray a fellow agent just to be able to live happily ever after with the love or your life - it's simply pathetic.
Hopefully there will be another twist in the story restoring the real Lucas to us. Otherwise Spooks will have turned into a farce, which for me would not be worthwile watching anymore.
Don't they say that a woman can bring out the best or the worst in a man? Well, it seems in the case of Maya it's definitely the worst.
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13-10-2010, 01:05 AM
Post: #57
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
Personally, this was one of the finest episodes of Spooks to date. And the reason? Teamwork.

The biggest complaint I had of Series 8 was the lack of team cooperation, largely due to the fact that there was no team. After Jo's death, Ros and Lucas were left to carry the entire show, which just didn't feel right.

But this episode brought the entire show back to one of its core ideals: a team of individuals working together to safe guard the nation.

Everyone played a part: Harry the supervisor. Ruth undercover. Tariq being Tariq. Lucas taking charge. Beth dealing with the complexities of Kai. And Dimitri (finally getting more than two lines) hopping on a bike to a defuse a bomb.

Incorporating the Chinese into the Spooks universe was a wonderful change of pace. The sharp cat and mouse game between the two sides was supremely engrossing. It wasn't your average, "Crazy idealists plant a bomb". There were genuine global poltical motivations at work here.

Oh, and the moment Lucas realized the jamming device had been online, my eyes widened. THAT was drama.

The twists. The misdirections. This was everything you could want in a Spooks plot. Sure, there were some leaps of faith from a tech standpoint. But I can forgive them when the drama is this great.

Side Notes:
- Love Beth. It took a few episodes, but I'm completely sold on the character. Love her fire and her passion, and I thought her emotional arc was believable. The way she beat herself up for failing to turn Kai reminded us that she's still a rookie. Sophia Myles is a welcome addition to the show.

- Lucas and Dimitri. Classic spy stuff, scaling the building in all black.

- I cannot say enough about how great Ruth was here. I love when they get her off the grid, and her spy craft was absolutely perfect. The "lip" bit with Harry was brief, but touching.

- Still would like a bit more of Tariq. A little back story and world view would be nice.

- I have no idea where this Lucas thing is going, so I'll save my comments for now. But I agree with the others regarding his running into Maya's arms. That felt quite random.

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13-10-2010, 08:08 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2010 08:48 AM by Silktie.)
Post: #58
Lucas RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
I really enjoyed this episode. While some parts may have stretched credibility, it was a really strong episode.

The relationship between Beth and Kai was really interesting to watch. They are really bringing out Beth’s character and I really enjoy her. She is really an integral part of the team and formed a friendship with Ruth. It has really changed the dynamic of the team for the better. Beth’s clothing was better in the first half of the episode.

It was nice to get to see more of Dmitri and his character has a great deal of potential. Now, if we could just work on Tariq’s character, it would be great. Why can’t he be in the group meetings?

Harry has some great relationships. The new home secretary is great and at least the new CIA chief has no accent problems. It seems like Harry and Ruth are getting along a lot better though the cowbell comment was semi-rude. I would never want to come under Ruth’s scrutiny.
The Chinese Security Services have been able to make MI5 that they have left the country. It will certainly be interesting to see how the Chinese are related to Lucas/Vaughn/Maya. Did Vaughn tell the Chinese about Lucas?

I think Lucas knows that he is being played
Series 9 Spoiler: show
and he is aware that Maya is in on the game (Laila Rouass said in an article that her character is involved with both Lucas and Vaughn).
Why would Vaughn include a photograph of her in the case except to trigger Lucas’ feelings and hopefully put him off balance? Lucas is not stupid. Furthermore, when he mentioned the tapas bar and moved in for the kiss she clearly moved away from him. Perhaps having second thoughts, she came downstairs to see him. The way he acted at the hospital was over the top, yelling her name down the hallway. I think that was part of the act. She really wasn’t thrilled to see him and she didn’t even ask any questions. It makes no sense.

I really hope that they don’t off anybody on this crew and keep them together for season 10 before they start killing people off.
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13-10-2010, 08:26 AM
Post: #59
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
(12-10-2010 11:20 PM)neuro Wrote:  Tariq could be easily any age from 25 to 35 I am 50 but people who I worked for though I was mid 30's

When you have physical access to the system its a lot easier to break in. And I have had to do this (leagaly) for work (I used to work for BT). We where asked to recover some systems to which the passwords had been lost and the third party who developed the system had had a major falling out with the end customer. And I was going to take over and run the system for them (online booking for one of the major cinema chains)

A bit of research and a chat with our reformed phreak and after getting the ok from 2 levels of management and the customer I popped over to there DC stuck in a floppy and grabbed what I needed and set some of our then powerful dual processor machines cracking it.

Took less than 48 hours to get a break (they used a week key) - I had considered setting up the engineering centers sun systems as a distributed cracking farm but that wasn't required.

Something like a EVGA Classified SR2 with the top end xeons on water cooling could probably do it in an afternoon – let alone if you loaded it up with 7 top of the line graphics cards and run the crackers on them.

Though to be honest some of the computer treknobabble isn’t that good any one know if they want a script consultant :-)

BTW nothing I mentioned here is secret I just worked in a standard engineering centre not the secret squirrels. And if I had time and budget I could have got hold of the cool gear which they only sell to approved organisations and could have cracked the systems directly.

And things have moved on the Stuxnet virus only needs to be on a memory stick inserted in the right machine for example.

... Thud I think my brain just died.

Just thinking about Lucas again (dangerous habit, serious health risks attached) but surely after the time he spent in a Russian prison when he was 'innocent', surely he would be a bit more hesitant of putting another innocent person in jail?

DANNY - Placements all over the shop. Back up vehicles, chopper support if we need it. Bomb disposal with a signal jammer for Mary’s trademark remote control blasts. And Tom here’s doing the catering. Mate. You are so covered.
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13-10-2010, 09:24 AM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2010 09:29 AM by BoHenley.)
Post: #60
RE: Series 9 Episode 4 discussion
(12-10-2010 10:58 PM)AnnMarie Wrote:  Love scene? Is that what you Brits call the little snog (a cute little term) here and there? I'm still waiting for the much ballyhooed kitchen table scene....and yes, I love Lucas and believe with all my heart his is the heart of a patriot.

If you read Wylie's blog for episode 5 (DON'T READ THIS IF YOU DON'T LIKE TEASERS/SPOILERS)
Series 9.5 Spoiler: show
his line about "Lucas / John betrays a possible past in furniture removal" must be the kitchen table scene. And (from a writing perspective) that scene must appear soon. Lucas must demonstrate the intensity of his passion for Maya in order to counterbalance what must eventuate in the final 3 episodes.

Watching that snog-scene in the hospital, I'm certain it's contrived (listen again to what he says and how he says it, then watch her face). Lucas is setting her up, but it won't stop him having some passionate (or not so passionate here) moments with her. And why not? As for what he did to the young agent, again, watch his face when he's with Vaughan - there's torment there. Loved the scene by the stairs with the knife.

MI5 would HAVE to have cameras by that computer bank and in the corridor. I could drive a B-double through that hole...

Loved Harry's "cow-bell" comment.
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