Episode 4 Discussion

[Beatriz]

Good to know (about the self-defence, I'm sure they need to do some of it to become a CIA/MI5 agent)

Yeees! I got that, forgot to comment the new intro, good to have Ruth and Tariq, miss Jo, I think is the first time they do it, for example in season 7 I don't think they changed the intro after killing Adam and having Lucas... Probably I'm wrong, I'm not very sure about that...

[Silktie]

Also, she had the element of surprise, as he didn't suspect anything about her.

[femaleBertieWooster]

(21-11-2009 07:31 PM)Beatriz Wrote:  

(21-11-2009 07:03 PM)femaleBertieWooster Wrote:  I know it's just a waste of bandwidth to mention that Christine 2 is not strong enough to pick up a man and toss him over a railing like that. If his center of gravity was higher than the rail, or maybe down some stairs, fine.

They kept us guessing with the Christine 1 character also, as to whether she was in love with or playing Tom.

I thought the same!!! She's quite tiny to be able to lift a man!!

I think Christine 1.0 was in love with Tom in the end, but I agree with almh, don't think Christine 2.0 is in love with Lucas

Even if she were bigger, unless she is a Olympic class weight lifter, she would not be strong enough, catching him off guard or whatever. I'm 5'7" and used to be super strong from weights but still would not have been able to take down the puniest man I ran across. Men are strong.

As far as being in love, it couldn't be that hard to muster up a better pretense, while still not signaling which side she's on. The actress is not delivering. I didn't trust Christine 1 until the very end of her arc.

And while we're on the subject, I still can't figure out why guys always fall for pretty blondes, (but that's my problem.)

Quote:Posted by almh - Today 08:32 PM
I've done a bit of self-defence and it is possible, as long as you get the right position.

She wasn't in any right position and neither was he, it was something out of a John Woo movie where gravity and the other laws of physics do not apply.

[almh]

(21-11-2009 07:48 PM)Silktie Wrote:  I liked how at the beginning of the episode Harry knew whose name the Russian was yelling at the camera, but still waited for Lucas to own up to the fact that it was his name and that he knew who the man was. To me it showed that there is still a lot of unresolved trust issues for Harry with Lucas. And Lucas can probably sense that, hence his lying awake thinking about Harry when he's in bed with Nancy Drew. It also explains why Harry lied without blinking an eye when Lucas asked him about the meeting in Basel. It seems Harry really trusts noone except Ruth...

I think Ruth really is the only person on the Grid he trusts. Tariq is new, Lucas was tortured by the Russians for 8 years and could easily be a double agent, and perhaps Harry doesn't quite fully trust Ros, perhaps because of Yalta, I don't know. But Ruth he definitely trusts - perhaps that is intricately linked with that he loves Ruth, or maybe it's just because she is so reliable and so resourceful. He used to have Malcolm too, but of course he retired...

Lucas and Harry definitely have some trust issues, but who can really blame them? Neither know quite where they stand yet.

[Adam Carter]

What an amazing episode. So many things to mull over, but Lucas was absolutely amazing in this one. His best episode yet. I knew Sarah wasn't on the up and up, so I wasn't overly shocked by her actions. Still, the railing scene made my jaw drop.

Some great Ros moments, too. Glad to see her back doing her thing after being so passive last week. The scene in the meth club was intense.

I wasn't surprised to see Jo's death handled so swiftly. It's become second nature for the show. But it was good to see Ruth and Tariq in the intro.

[lwhite53]

Just re-watched ep 4 and noticed something. Only four people knew Ros was going to the squat to find the Sudanese guy: Ros, Harry, Ruth and Tariq. Who, then, tipped off Oleg that MI5 had found the guy? Couldn't have been Sarah because she was with Oleg at the time. Any ideas?

[JHyde]

FINALLY managed to watch the episode - I was held up by a bushfire.

Back on thread: love Traiq's new look. I agree that the writers are being slow in giving us too much about Tariq, and hopefully he'll stick around long enough to fully develop as a character. I agree with dannyfriar about the gritty feel to the episode, there was a seedy underbelly to this story that nicely parallels the reveal to Lucas' suicide attempt.

I'm unclear as to why Oleg was handed back to the FSB. Why wsn't he kept as an asset for the British? The FSB knowing they had him surely wasn't enough to throw him back to them? I did feel for that guy just a tiny bit, actually.

I adored the scene with Harry and Ruth in that beautiful location. I agree with what's been said, that it is a huge deal for Harry to confide in Ruth and want to talk about losing her. Quote of the ep: "There'll always be something else, Ruth". It's absolutely true, and ultimately what may keep them apart. It's completely right that he is sharing Basel only with her. Ros has enough on her plate.

And the mindgames continue between Harry and Lucas. Harry once more looks into Lucas' eyes and says no, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Fantastic episode for RA. How great was it to hear the old Russian music cue from last season make a reappearance? I also like that the Russians are still very much present this season. That underlying tension will make for something explosive later in the show's run, I suspect. That history can't be denied.

I picked the Sarah connection though! I KNEW she was part of Nightingale! It's somewhere on the forum from when we were speculating about the character. I saw echoes of Tom and Christine in the choice of shots used in the bedroom scene - remember 2.10 when they were in the bath? Very weird. That beginning was why I suspected it might end the way it did. The locations for this episode were some of my favourites in the show's run, they just fit really well. I actually thought Lucas' place was very fitting, so I'm sorry he didn't like it.

lwhite53, I don't think it was a matter of Oleg being tipped off. I think he ws always plannning to kill that guy anyway and possibly change the location, just to keep people out of the loop.

And we know Sarah's meant to be from Boston now, thanks to Ros.

[almh]

(22-11-2009 02:48 AM)JHyde Wrote:  FINALLY managed to watch the episode - I was held up by a bushfire.

Wow, a bushfire! That's the most original excuse I've ever heard for not watching an episode

Tariq seems to be a more popular character then Ben - even though we similarly knew very little about Ben. Wasn't it because everyone hated Ben because he got on their nerves? I feel sorry for Tariq - he's not involved in the episodes much, and hasn't got as much of a presence as Malcolm had - Malcolm came on screen and you assumed that he had just spent the last couple of hours researching the information, generally being Malcolm. When Tariq walks in, I just assume he went out for a cup of coffee and has returned.

I think Oleg ordered the guy's execution as soon as he spoke to Lucas, so purely coincidental that Ros was there when it happened. As for Oleg being handed back to the Russians, I would say that if MI5 hadn't given him back, the FSB would have been more likely to launch an attack on British soil, so showing Britain to the FSB as a country it could work with rather than against.

Nightingale? Was that the name of the organisation? (It's too early to be up at the weekend!)

[Dieder]

Wow, pretty impressed. Best episode of the series so far. Really never disliked the Sarah character but now with her killing her boss... Very curious to the next episode(s)!

[Silktie]

(22-11-2009 12:25 AM)lwhite53 Wrote:  Just re-watched ep 4 and noticed something. Only four people knew Ros was going to the squat to find the Sudanese guy: Ros, Harry, Ruth and Tariq. Who, then, tipped off Oleg that MI5 had found the guy? Couldn't have been Sarah because she was with Oleg at the time. Any ideas?

Remember Oleg was the one that told Lucas about the Sudanese guy in the first place, so no-one had to tip him off that MI5 knew about the guy. I assumed he took the guy out to prevent MI5 getting their hands on him as soon as he gave the information to Lucas.