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Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
13-02-2010, 11:45 PM
Post: #1
zzVideo Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
As promised, just the one episode this week. Here's some thoughts of mine:

- One of my favorite episodes of Spooks, ever!
- Had a lot of admiration for Tom and the way he handled everything in this episode, a truly inspirational leader.
- Hated Vicky in this episode, (more than usual) throwing all her toys out of the pram because Tom wouldn't go to Egypt! Did she honestly expect him to be able to?
- It was also really good to see the characters reach breaking point, particularly Colin starting on Danny. LOVE IT.

That's all for now, but I'm sure I'll have other things to say based on your opinions!

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14-02-2010, 12:28 AM
Post: #2
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
One of my favourite episodes. I loved:

The claustraphobic aspect of the episode with it being set on the Grid - I remember reading somewhere that they did this to reduce costs.
The building up of tension leading to the Colin and Danny fight.
Ruth's realisation that she is nothing without her job
Ruth calling Harry a "bastard" and the relief on her face when she realises he is okay.

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We move on from this
It's the realisation that I make a negligible difference
Sometimes you have to give a man a chance
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14-02-2010, 01:10 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2010 01:11 PM by Tea Lady.)
Post: #3
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
One of the best episodes of the entire series in my opinion.

-Loved the opening with Ruth doing the weekly report. Quite different to what we have been used to. Also Ruth seemed to appear a lot in this episode, and behind Tom, was the main character. Considering she has only been the series a few episodes, the writers obviously saw the potential in her quite quickly. In contrast, Zoe hardly featured at all and Tom even confided in Ruth when he nearly lost it, and not his two long standing friends, Zoe and Danny.
- Vicky was completely nuts. Why Tom still went after her, asking her out for lunch I do not know.
-Loved the way Sam and Ruth got all excited at the start when they really thought it was an exercise, like they were at school.
-Loved that we found out that Ruth was on her own and didnt have much of a private life. It really explained a lot.
-Wondered why Ruth was the only one to check on Harry after he had not been seen outside his office. Again where were the others who had known Harry longer? Another glimpse of Ruth's compassionate side.
-As you mention Shazia.Kasim, Ruth calling Harry a bastard. Was this because she was just angry because the whole thing was an exercise or was it because she was angry with him for making her think he was dead? Maybe a bit of both.
-Loved Colin and Malcolm throughout and the whole sticking finger incident up with Danny.
-I kind of liked Tom in this episode although I didnt like his indifference when he was sending Steph to her death.
-Loved the Harry Zoe hugging scene at the end although if I were Zoe I think I would have hit him! She really didnt need that exercise at this time in her life.

The only slight criticism is where was Harry? Surely if this was for real then he would have been involved more from the start? Why didnt anyone pick up on this?

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14-02-2010, 01:23 PM
Post: #4
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
They believed he was sick with VX symptoms.. he was acting as if he thought it was an exercise too, then moved to acting as if it was real.

They all thought it was an exercise when Harry was not around, then after they began to believe it was real, Harry got sick, furtherly making them believe?

I think Zoe picked up on it, or Danny, someone said "What's up with Harry, he's so distant". As for Tom's indifference, he had to appear that way in order to function as a leader, I think deep down he was really hurt about sending her to her death, but in a doomsday situation, you do what you need to do at whatever cost.

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14-02-2010, 02:03 PM
Post: #5
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
I see what you are saying that they were treating it as an exercise but they were supposed to be treating it as real. I just couldnt quite believe that Harry wouldn't be involved if this was a real incident. Also he couldnt play on having the VX symtoms until at least half way through when the loo's were mentioned, and the royal family and PM had died some time before that. Surely that would have been enough to have got him out of his office even if he was pretending it was all real.

(I have just read what I have written and have now confused myself even more as to what was going on) Smile

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14-02-2010, 02:06 PM
Post: #6
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
I don't think they believed it was real until that moment, when they were talking about how it could get into Thames house.

Up until that point they thought it was an exercise and Harry was observing, because Tom was EMEX. I don't think it would be unusual for Harry to step back during an exercise to observe them, then when they did believe it was real, Harry played the VX card.

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14-02-2010, 02:58 PM
Post: #7
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
This really is a brilliant episode, and one where all the guest actors deliver terrific, believable performances. There are so many things I loved, I'll list them:
- The opening with Ruth listing all the threats and then saying "Good morning world". Great opening, and also a slight of hand with the fact that everyone made a lot of the guy caught selling info about the nuclear station, and nothing said about the Patmos group.
- Malcolm bemoaning the fact that nothing works as it should throughout the episode, he was truly hilarious. And also, him classifying anything that goes wrong as 'technical'.
- Ruth breaking down whilst giving the VX briefing, and Harry taking pity on her.
- Harry's look when Colin mentions the water in the loos. Perfectly played. And also Malcolm later saying that he saw Harry going to the loo, hee!
- Harry still finding time to be snide towards anyone who doesn't know all the technical terms throughout the episode - "Let's all slide along the learning curve", indeed!
- The actress who played Steph was brilliant.
- Loved the fact that Harry was quoting St. Paul when he pretended to be dying.
- Ruth's empathy for Harry and saying to Tom that it was a terrible decision to leave him dying alone in his office. The discussion between Tom and Ruth just after finding Harry was brilliant - poor Tom is at the end of his tether and Ruth is basically telling him to suck it up and be the leader he's supposed to be.
- Colin giving Danny the finger was hilarious.
- Everyone's reactions when the lights come back on was really good. Especially loved the little look Harry gives Tom when he's waiting for him to hand him the gun. And then Malcolm's attempt at a smile when everyone starts clapping, so funny.
- Loved Harry's laugh and hug for Zoe.
- Vicky is a tool, and up there with the most annoying characters ever on Spooks. What the hell does Tom see in this woman?

It's interesting to see how Ruth's resolve grows through this episode. She starts off by breaking down during the briefing, but then just grows stronger the longer the crisis goes on. In the end she is helping propping up Tom and ensuring that everyone else does what they have to do. Of all the people on the Grid, I think we learn most about Ruth's abilities during this episode, and that even though she is compassionate, she doesn't question the hard decisions Tom has to make like sending Steph to her death because she understands that there is no other option.

To me, this is also the episode where Tom's cracks start to appear. He does what is necessary, but at great personal cost. At the end, when everyone is relieved and laughing Tom still cannot let it go, and remains as coiled as a spring. It is also perhaps the start of the rift that will come between Tom and Harry, and Harry seems to sense this by the look he gives Tom as they're all leaving.

Lastly, if I were Tom I probably would have shot Harry at the end. Ruth's "you bastard" was indeed earned.

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14-02-2010, 03:07 PM
Post: #8
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
Liked your comments about Tom at the end Silktie. Yes I think you may be right about this being the beginning of the end for him. Harry perhaps thought he had gone a little too far with this training exercise at the end, maybe? Not quite sure why Tom got straight on the phone to Vicky. I think I would have gone down the pub first and then faced the music. Perhaps he was so angry and in the mood for a fight, he just wanted to carry it on so Vicky got it in the neck.

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14-02-2010, 03:18 PM (This post was last modified: 14-02-2010 03:19 PM by JHyde.)
Post: #9
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
Tea Lady, I understand what you are getting at. When I was writing the Ruth's Dairy entry for this episode, it troubled me a great deal and was one of the reasons that getting the continuity of that entry right was so difficult.

I understand why Tom was so cold when talking to Steph The one line he could have played for emotion was his repsonse when she asks him if he wants to come and have a drink with her.

I too see this as the beginning of Tom's end. One of the hardest things for him in this episode is that fact that different people know little bits of just how bad things are getting: Harry, rations, Zoe and the firearms, Malcolm and the morale issue - but only Tom sees the full picture. And in that he is alone.

Tea Lady mentioned something about Zoe and how this might not have been the best time for her to go something through this. There's truth to that, but I like to think that she took from this day the knowledge that her cheating ratbag of a lover wasn't the worst thing she could imagine.

I'm going against the grain here. This episode is very moving and gripping the first time you watch it, but I do feel that it loses some of its power once you know its conclusion. And more so than what you would normally find upon a rewatch. The sequences that remain powerful are the argument over the continuity of government (which is bloody scary, quite frankly), Tom's whispered discussion with Ruth in which she chastises him for rejecting her comforting words, and the final sequence in which all is revealed and the team is stunned while everyone around them drinks champagne.

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14-02-2010, 03:19 PM
Post: #10
RE: Episode 5 Discussion [rewatch]
Or maybe the events finally made him realise how shallow she was, and that even a good lay didn't compensate for that?

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