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almh · 16-10-2009, 08:30 PM

ausfan is right - Spooks is a program that has to adapt to the changing political climate, often having to format future political climates. And they do do it fantastically.

Lucasfan · 20-10-2009, 11:46 PM

Reality?

Nothing will shake my belief that the public probably find out about 20% (to use the old 80:20 idea) of what really goes on.......

You don't know what you don't know!

RoninExec · 21-10-2009, 08:01 AM

The saying is "What you don't know can't hurt you".

almh · 21-10-2009, 12:48 PM

but "the truth will set you free," so maybe this will change Tongue

RoninExec · 21-10-2009, 01:19 PM

Another Whitehall spin...

Lucasfan · 21-10-2009, 04:00 PM

all I meant was that none of us knows how much is concealed from us.......

Tomsdouble · 21-10-2009, 05:53 PM

How hypocritical of the CIA to have the Biblical edict '..the truth shall set you free' in its entrance way. I doubt they even know what the truth is anymore after Iraq. All this from an organisation (and sector) that thrives on secrecy! We still don't know what part MI5 played in torture, thanks to our government and its obsession to withhold vital information. Harry and co probably make them look like saints.

almh · 21-10-2009, 05:57 PM

Or self-righteous idiots. I would hope that MI5 play a minimal part in torture, because I don't think anyone really wants to be part of a society that accepts torture, and the use of torture on ordinary humans, that may or not be innocent. I think that Harry is right in that "there's always another way." I just hope that those other ways are more moral, and just as effective in torture.

Maybe the CIA 'slogan' is right, maybe the CIA do reveal a lot of what goes on within it's organisation. Maybe that has altered our perception of them to torturing hypocrites. Maybe MI5 are just as bad, but we don't know this so we presume, or hope, that they're better, and allow ourselves to be influenced towards MI5 being 'the good guys.'

**Nitrus** · 21-10-2009, 06:00 PM

I accept that torture happens.. and I accept that sometimes torture is neccessary. I believe that we can justify torture to prevent the loss of innocent life, provided that we can prove beyond reasonable doubt that the victim of the torture IS undoubtably guilty of conspiracy to commit murder by terrorism.

Heavy.

Tomsdouble · 21-10-2009, 06:26 PM

Just to iron out any ambiguity, I meant Harry and co are saints in comparison...the thing about torture is that the person being tortured will say anything to stop the pain so how can you believe anything gained during one of these 'sessions'? The answer is, of course, that you cannot. Therefore the West, the oh so enlightened and evolved West (or the US) are entirely wrong to practise torture. So I say again, we have an absolute right to know what has gone on with regard to Binyam Mohamed etc. Miliband is going to very extreme lengths to withhold information. That tells me all I need to know!

Yes, it is heavy and people are at stake here, and their sanity. Real people.

Obviously torture is a topic that crops up from time to time in Spooks and 9:3 was one hell of an episode, for instance: "I wouldn't call it torture; I wouldn't call it torture at all"......